Quarterback stat comparison

[Froggish]

I think the order as far as which guy gives us the best chance to win a game right now would be Collins, Duggan, then Delton. If someone wants to convince me Duggan is better than Collins today I'd say that's fair but based on what I saw out of Collins last year, I just think he's a little better right now.

IMO Delton is no more polished or less turnover prone than either of those two guys right now, I just don't get the need to force feed him reps. Let him start playing some WR, with Barber out and Davis having so much trouble catching the ball, see if he can fill a role there. Then if something happens to either Duggan or Collins move him back to QB.

There's plenty of evidence that Collins is a better option than Delton...Contexualy though there's not a lot of appreciable evidence that Collins is any better of an option than Duggan. Now I'll concede that we just don't know what we have with MC..He needs more opportunity.

 

[Wexahu]

There's plenty of evidence that Collins is a better option than Delton...Contexualy though there's not a lot of appreciable evidence that Collins is any better of an option than Duggan. Now I'll concede that we just don't know what we have with MC..He needs more opportunity.

I just think Collins is a little better passer right now than Duggan from what I saw of him last year. More accurate and more touch. Granted, I get that Duggan is a lot younger and that part of his game could improve a lot pretty quickly so it's not like I'm opposed to Duggan starting and getting most of the PT. But by the time Collins got to play last year the team was a mess, I'd argue that he needs more opportunity as well.

 

[Froggish]

Good stats. Need to add two categories:
1) fumbles - I think this puts Delton ahead of Duggan for short yard running plays, but have not looked up actual numbers.

2) Team scoring - which QB leads the team to the most points as a whole, basically manages the scoring drives themselves or handing off to the running backs.

# 1 Duggan has struggled with ball security but I don't see that being a long term issue.
# 2 Duggan has been better by a landslide...

 

[Chongo94]

Good stats. Need to add two categories:
1) fumbles - I think this puts Delton ahead of Duggan for short yard running plays, but have not looked up actual numbers.

2) Team scoring - which QB leads the team to the most points as a whole, basically manages the scoring drives themselves or handing off to the running backs.

I believe Duggan is by far the leader of the latter category.

Edit: Froggish beat me.

 

[TX_Krötenechse]

I can think of two reasons Delton is more effective than Duggan and Collins in those situations. Number one, Delton has much more experience. Secondly, as user Planks pointed out, Delton is a more accomplished rusher at 5.9 YPC, compared to Duggan's .5 and Collin's 3.1 YPC. At K-State Delton rushed for 11 TDs.

Worth noting that Collins and Duggan’s rushing stats are pretty heavily impacted by the sacks they’ve taken. Duggan has seemed to be an effective runner when he actually runs.

 

[McGregor's Goat]

I’ve thought a lot about why coaches have Delton as number 2 over Collins, despite Collins appearing to be the better quarterback from both an eye test and statistical standpoint. This is what I have come up with:

I will add my own grassy knoll theory, which only a silly fan like me would come up with. You don't have to mock me or say it's a dumb theory, I know it's a dumb theory:

Theory: We have too many QBs, and GP knows it. Some are going to leave. One reason GP took Delton was because the guy is a senior and will only be here for one season. The staff is committed to Duggan and thinks he's the future, but wanted a one-year insurance policy if he wasn't ready as a freshman. After that, they probably view the future as a competition between Duggan and Baldwin, with Duggan being the favorite. Collins is a junior. So if he gets to play and is 10% or so better than Duggan, it complicates things for next year. And the coaches really don't want to risk losing Duggan.

 

[Froggish]

I will add my own grassy knoll theory, which only a silly fan like me would come up with. You don't have to mock me or say it's a dumb theory, I know it's a dumb theory:

Theory: We have too many QBs, and GP knows it. Some are going to leave. One reason GP took Delton was because the guy is a senior and will only be here for one season. The staff is committed to Duggan and thinks he's the future, but wanted a one-year insurance policy if he wasn't ready as a freshman. After that, they probably view the future as a competition between Duggan and Baldwin, with Duggan being the favorite. Collins is a junior. So if he gets to play and is 10% or so better than Duggan, it complicates things for next year. And the coaches really don't want to risk losing Duggan.

This probably isn't that off....I believe Collins is going to graduate early and look elsewhere as a grad unless he's the definitive starter come years end. That will leave Max, Baldwin, and Rogers next year along with the two QB recruits Williams and Holiday.

I

 

[froginmn]

Worth noting that Collins and Duggan’s rushing stats are pretty heavily impacted by the sacks they’ve taken. Duggan has seemed to be an effective runner when he actually runs.

All due respect this is trying to change facts to fit the conclusion.

With Duggan, he's been sacked 6 times for a loss of 44 yards. Take away those 6 carries and he has 20 carries for 56 yards. 2.8 per carry.

Edit: Collins has been sacked 6 times in his TCU career for 41 yards.

Delton has been sacked 3 times for a loss of 26. Without the sacks he's run 12 times for 114 yards. 9.5 per carry. Even with his three sacks (where we lost more yardage on average) he's 5.9 per carry.

You can hammer Delton for throwing but you're seeing something that isn't there if you think Max has been an effective runner. He certainly can be, but hasn't shown it yet.

 

[Eight]

All due respect this is trying to change facts to fit the conclusion.

With Duggan, he's been sacked 6 times for a loss of 44 yards. Take away those 6 carries and he has 20 carries for 56 yards. 2.8 per carry.

Delton has been sacked 3 times for a loss of 26. Without the sacks he's run 12 times for 114 yards. 9.5 per carry. Even with his three sacks (where we lost more yardage on average) he's 5.9 per carry.

You can hammer Delton for throwing but you're seeing something that isn't there if you think Max has been an effective runner. He certainly can be, but hasn't shown it yet.

will all due respect, delton's numbers on the ground are skewed by the 54 yard run to open up the second half against the worst college football team in the history of history, arkansas pine bluff.

was that run a sign of his potential or merely an outlier because with that carry alex's average yards per carry falls to 2,43

wexahu said this a while back and i agree in that alex might be a great kid, a great team mate, but when i see him on the field i don't see a skill set so unique that he is offering something tcu absolutely has to have on the field, can't get elsewhere, or more importantly makes up for his limitations in the passing game.

 

[froginmn]

will all due respect, delton's numbers on the ground are skewed by the 54 yard run to open up the second half against the worst college football team in the history of history, arkansas pine bluff.

was that run a sign of his potential or merely an outlier because with that carry alex's average yards per carry falls to 2,43

wexahu said this a while back and i agree in that alex might be a great kid, a great team mate, but when i see him on the field i don't see a skill set so unique that he is offering something tcu absolutely has to have on the field, can't get elsewhere, or more importantly makes up for his limitations in the passing game.

With all due respect Duggan played in the same game against the same defense and didn't rip off a big run.

Nor did Sewo, Anderson, Barlow, or Demercado.

Just proves that this board wants to diminish the accomplishments of Delton.

Just give him credit for what he does. Why is that so difficult?

 

[BABYFACE]

It could be floated that a healthy Collins and if he had not gotten hurt this Fall Camp that he might have been the number one. Duggan is the future and a higher upside but Collins is a little more polished at this point. However, Max has that intangible of that guy just knows how to win. At least that is what I noticed about his demeanor.

 

[Wexahu]

With all due respect Duggan played in the same game against the same defense and didn't rip off a big run.

Nor did Sewo, Anderson, Barlow, or Demercado.

Just proves that this board wants to diminish the accomplishments of Delton.

Just give him credit for what he does. Why is that so difficult?

I'd be glad to give him credit where credit is due, I just think his running ability has been overrated. Honestly, and I've made this point several times before, I thought he would be a much more dangerous runner than he's shown. Doesn't seem all that quick to me, or decisive, or fast to me. In the run game he looks like a fairly run-of-the-mill moderately mobile QB to me, a kid that can move but doesn't really present a threat that teams have to gameplan around. Kind of like what Max Duggan is.

I couldn't care less who plays QB, I don't have a dog in the fight so to speak, I just want the best player in there, and at this point in the season Delton has not shown he's any better than Duggan or what we had with Collins last year IMO.

 

[Chongo94]

With all due respect Duggan played in the same game against the same defense and didn't rip off a big run.

Nor did Sewo, Anderson, Barlow, or Demercado.

Just proves that this board wants to diminish the accomplishments of Delton.

Just give him credit for what he does. Why is that so difficult?

Great, move him to running back. He’s accomplished some things, yes, and he is apparently a very fine young man by all accounts.

But for myself and perhaps others, there is about 3 plus years of evidence and now 4 games this season, that he isn’t a very good quarterback in the true sense of the word.

 

[Froggish]

All due respect this is trying to change facts to fit the conclusion.

With Duggan, he's been sacked 6 times for a loss of 44 yards. Take away those 6 carries and he has 20 carries for 56 yards. 2.8 per carry.

Edit: Collins has been sacked 6 times in his TCU career for 41 yards.

Delton has been sacked 3 times for a loss of 26. Without the sacks he's run 12 times for 114 yards. 9.5 per carry. Even with his three sacks (where we lost more yardage on average) he's 5.9 per carry.

You can hammer Delton for throwing but you're seeing something that isn't there if you think Max has been an effective runner. He certainly can be, but hasn't shown it yet.

Doesn't change the facts you have laid out but its important to note that Delton got 54 yards on 1 run against and a SWAC team...

 

[Eight]

With all due respect Duggan played in the same game against the same defense and didn't rip off a big run.

Nor did Sewo, Anderson, Barlow, or Demercado.

Just proves that this board wants to diminish the accomplishments of Delton.

Just give him credit for what he does. Why is that so difficult?

believe what you want and it is admirable you have chosen to defend alex.

 

[kidkarr]

Maybe so, and maybe that's a reach, but I honestly think that has something to do with it. You got a kid the coaches probably like, he was a highly recruited kid that has some ability, but he doesn't really fit our base offense well so you try and come up with a way to get him involved.

I ask myself why else would we do it and the only other answers I come up with seems dumber.

Wildfrog is about having an extra blocker. Not defending it, but that’s why teams do it.

 

[Wexahu]

Wildfrog is about having an extra blocker. Not defending it, but that’s why teams do it.

I would possibly defend it if we had a QB that couldn't run the ball themselves. And I'm almost 100% sure that DA would be a better option in the Wildfrog than Sewo if we just insist on running it. He's much better at finding a hole and hitting it quickly and he has plenty of power to run that kind of play.

 

[Froggish]

With all due respect Duggan played in the same game against the same defense and didn't rip off a big run.

Nor did Sewo, Anderson, Barlow, or Demercado.

Just proves that this board wants to diminish the accomplishments of Delton.

Just give him credit for what he does. Why is that so difficult?

Delton is a good runner...I don't think anyone is disputing that. SC is calling a ton of RPO but Duggan rarely ever keeps where Delton rarely ever hands it off. The comparison in snaps taken is way to Duggan side and he only has 8 more carries then Delton...Its pretty clear that each of them are running the offense differently. Duggan is handing it off or trying to throw it and Delton is much more comfortable keeping it and running.

 

[JockO de Frog]

It could be floated that a healthy Collins and if he had not gotten hurt this Fall Camp that he might have been the number one. Duggan is the future and a higher upside but Collins is a little more polished at this point. However, Max has that intangible of that guy just knows how to win. At least that is what I noticed about his demeanor.

Agree with the first part, and question the second part. How can we discount and write off a junior quarterback such as Collins? I still believe he will win the job this year. I am reminded of Baylor under Briles. All of his QBs had to wait their turn and they were very good when they did. If Duggan has to wait till his junior year (or redshirt sophmore year because he could redshirt next year and still play 4 games), then so be it.

 

[JockO de Frog]

The P.S. to my above post is that the transfer portal has changed the dynamics of players waiting their turn and I will grant that we may lose one or some. Nevertheless, you play the one THIS YEAR that you can win with. If we lose some, perhaps we can tap the transfer portal ourselves.