• The KillerFrogs

2023-2024 European Football Thread

Chongo94

Active Member
Pulisic is arguably the best player on the entire pitch, it feels kinda weird to say that about an American player.
 
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Eight

Member
worst part of this result is more time and energy will be spent in the media talking about equal pay instead are the right decisions being made to put then us in the best position to not only qualify for the next world cup but to truly be competitive
 

Purp

Active Member
If FIFA and or CONCACAF had ANY stones, they’d suspend Mexico from international competition or at the very least have the team play to empty stadiums until its idiotic fan base stops that stupid chant.
May as well have played this one in Azteca. Both from a fan shenanigans standpoint and a hostile environment standpoint. The attendance spread for this game feels like a Trump border wall tweet waiting to happen.
 

Purp

Active Member
Mexico are the worst or best example of a team that constantly engages in “[ steaming pile of Orgeron ]housery” as the Brits say. I despise them with the intensity of 15 million everlasting suns!
I'll never understand why CONCACAF officials let them get away with all the little crap they do.

First of all, the choke on McKinnie right in front of the ref needs to be dealt with promptly and decisively. It's a red card in every league on earth, but I could even accept yellow there given the fact it was in a tournament final and emotions were high. But to let that end with a neutral finger wagging is cheap and weak.

The foul disparity throughout the game is perplexing. That was hardly a passive effort by Mexico that warranted 21 minutes of play before they earned their first whistle. As an official you have to know the history of a rivalry, the reputations for the way each team plays, and the fact that if you don't get control of the match early it'll be nearly impossible to get it back later.

And to only give 3 minutes of stoppage time after all the bush league fake injuries that followed the goal is criminal. Anything less than 5 minutes means the ref wasn't paying attention.

All that said, darn Jozy for missing that chippy. This was a game the US should have won in the first half. Too many prime chances missed that final bit of quality and it's a shame bc they easily could have won.
 

Purp

Active Member
One final thought...

I love Stu Holden in the booth. Aside from him saying "that moment" every other sentence he's impeccable behind the mic. He was spot on in his analysis of the tactical change at halftime that shifted momentum for Mexico.

Berhalter never beat the Mexico manager in MLS and it appears as though the Nats will be at a tactical disadvantage to Mexico for this cycle also. It was an obvious enough change that Berhalter should have recognized it and adjusted to it much sooner. Waiting until after Mexico scored was a mistake and I think it's one that won't get any press though it should.

Along the same line of Stu in the booth, I think Mo Edu is the best talking head we've produced. He's fabulous in pre/post game analysis. I hope Fox keeps the international coverage for a long time with this group. I just wish they'd dump Lex. He is to men's soccer for me what Rapinoe has been recently for women's soccer. I can honestly say I have never liked him dating back to my middle school years.
 

Chongo94

Active Member
I'll never understand why CONCACAF officials let them get away with all the little crap they do.

First of all, the choke on McKinnie right in front of the ref needs to be dealt with promptly and decisively. It's a red card in every league on earth, but I could even accept yellow there given the fact it was in a tournament final and emotions were high. But to let that end with a neutral finger wagging is cheap and weak.

The foul disparity throughout the game is perplexing. That was hardly a passive effort by Mexico that warranted 21 minutes of play before they earned their first whistle. As an official you have to know the history of a rivalry, the reputations for the way each team plays, and the fact that if you don't get control of the match early it'll be nearly impossible to get it back later.

And to only give 3 minutes of stoppage time after all the bush league fake injuries that followed the goal is criminal. Anything less than 5 minutes means the ref wasn't paying attention.

All that said, darn Jozy for missing that chippy. This was a game the US should have won in the first half. Too many prime chances missed that final bit of quality and it's a shame bc they easily could have won.

I have long felt that FIFA should provide European or Asian refs for most CONCACAF games. I know they won’t and you can make the arguments for other geographical areas having the same issues as well (although some have overcome those issues arguably better than this region) but I have always felt given the complex cultural and historical (and current) issues of US involvement in Latin America that it is almost impossible to get a true neutral ref for a US vs Mexico game.

Add in that the Mexican fans, the Mexican team, and arguably the Mexican federation generally intimidate every single ref to the point where you get issues that you mentioned/covered.

It does seem that the Caribbean centered refs do a better job when Mexico and the USA play each other but when it’s a Latin American ref, I ready myself because I know what’s coming for the entire game.

What’s frustrating is that the USA, geographically speaking, is the cash cow of CONCACAF. I mean you see Mexico playing friendlies in the USA because they get more fans and money. But CONCACAF seems ridiculously fearful to ever crack down on Mexican antics.
 
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Purp

Active Member
I have long felt that FIFA should provide European or Asian refs for most CONCACAF games. I know they won’t and you can make the arguments for other geographical areas having the same issues as well (although some have overcome those issues arguably better than this region) but I have always felt given the complex cultural and historical (and current) issues of US involvement in Latin America that it is almost impossible to get a true neutral ref for a US vs Mexico game.

Add in that the Mexican fans, the Mexican team, and arguably the Mexican federation generally intimidate every single ref to the point where you get issues that you mentioned/covered.

It does seem that the Caribbean centered refs do a better job when Mexico and the USA play each other but when it’s a Latin American ref, I ready myself because I know what’s coming for the entire game.

What’s frustrating is that the USA, geographically speaking, is the cash cow of CONCACAF. I mean you see Mexico playing friendlies in the USA because they get more fans and money. But CONCACAF seems ridiculously fearful to ever crack down on Mexican antics.
And the US federation is as spineless to address it as CONCACAF. It's almost as if our own federation supports these shenanigans. Gulati was a smarmy little candy arse, but it doesn't appear the new hierarchy in the federation will be any more assertive about this or anything else. Look no further than how long it took to name a darning manager. A failure to press CONCACAF on this is a tacit endorsement of it.

Honestly, we aren't the only country it happens to when facing Mexico either. I can't believe Honduras, Costa Rica, and even Panama or Jamaica wouldn't join were to make one.

All that said, I'm not sure how much of my words are emotions still pouring out after seeing us lose to the Tech fans of international sport and watching them celebrate en mass in the concourse of an American stadium like they owned the darning place. Because, let's face it, the people there last night think they do.
 

Eight

Member
I have long felt that FIFA should provide European or Asian refs for most CONCACAF games. I know they won’t and you can make the arguments for other geographical areas having the same issues as well (although some have overcome those issues arguably better than this region) but I have always felt given the complex cultural and historical (and current) issues of US involvement in Latin America that it is almost impossible to get a true neutral ref for a US vs Mexico game.

Add in that the Mexican fans, the Mexican team, and arguably the Mexican federation generally intimidate every single ref to the point where you get issues that you mentioned/covered.

It does seem that the Caribbean centered refs do a better job when Mexico and the USA play each other but when it’s a Latin American ref, I ready myself because I know what’s coming for the entire game.

What’s frustrating is that the USA, geographically speaking, is the cash cow of CONCACAF. I mean you see Mexico playing friendlies in the USA because they get more fans and money. But CONCACAF seems ridiculously fearful to ever crack down on Mexican antics.

re-read this line and ask yourself who is buying those tickets because it sure as heck aren't people identifying with the us national team.

no different than when the mexican league teams come play a doubleheader at reliant and draw 30-40,000.
 

TAINTed frog

Active Member
Unsolicited thoughts about last night. For the majority of the first half the team looked really great. Obviously the missed chances in front of goal were frustrating but it was nice to see us getting into position to have those chances. Outside of Altidore's miss, I thought he played quite well.

The second half was certainly different as we could not crack the adjustments made by Mexico.

I would still like to see us play better with regard to playing the ball more quickly. A lot of guys seem to have trouble positioning their bodies when a ball comes to them and then have to play around with the ball. I feel like this is especially noticeable with the back line (which is somewhat excusable as back line guys aren't great on the ball to begin with, but they should be better at receiving passes with their bodies open).

Bradley is frustrating to watch. He looked like an old man out there.
 

Purp

Active Member
Unsolicited thoughts about last night. For the majority of the first half the team looked really great. Obviously the missed chances in front of goal were frustrating but it was nice to see us getting into position to have those chances. Outside of Altidore's miss, I thought he played quite well.

The second half was certainly different as we could not crack the adjustments made by Mexico.

I would still like to see us play better with regard to playing the ball more quickly. A lot of guys seem to have trouble positioning their bodies when a ball comes to them and then have to play around with the ball. I feel like this is especially noticeable with the back line (which is somewhat excusable as back line guys aren't great on the ball to begin with, but they should be better at receiving passes with their bodies open).

Bradley is frustrating to watch. He looked like an old man out there.
Agreed on Jozy. I thought his ability to hold the ball and shield from defenders and find guys running off of him was the best I've seen from him in a very long time. He was a huge part of every dangerous chance we had in the first half. If he can do that on a consistent basis I'd be happy for him to be starting for us up top moving forward. I definitely think he's better for us than Zardes b/c Gyasi doesn't even do that very well and isn't much better at finishing around the goal. Jozy still has to put that one away, though.

Also agreed on Bradley. He used to bring a 1st rate work ethic and tenacity that made him look bigger and faster in the center of the park. He also made great decisions most of the time and was reliably very solid. He's none of those things now and it was sad to watch. I think that was a big part of the result last night. Jordan Morris was another guy for me last night who looked a little bit out classed. Not to the extent Bradley did, but he wasn't as good as the rest of our lineup.

Another unsolicited thought from me about last night is about the lack of any time for Boyd. Unless he picked up an injury at some point I'm not sure his one bad performance was enough to take him out of the squad for the remainder of the tournament. He was extremely impactful early on and I think he would have been a better sub in the 2nd half than Roldan (though he was excellent, IMO) because Boyd is a guy that would have broken the pressure from Mexico a little more reliably. His ability with the ball on his feet and his ability to see the field under pressure and make the pass nobody else sees is exactly the type of player who could have penalized Mexico for its pressure by launching a quick and dangerous counter attack.

This is one of several moves Berhalter made/didn't make that confounded me. The other was how obvious it was Tim Ream was exposed in the 2nd half. Cannon was phenomenal all tournament and the 2nd half adjustment by Mexico to free up Pizzaro on the opposite side from Reggie proved his value. Ream simply didn't have the speed and agility to stay in front of Pizzaro and failing to address that sooner, whether tactically or with a sub, was an egregious error. Lovitz seemed effective when he came on, but I'm not sure how much of that was him and how much of it was Mexico taking the foot off the gas a little to run clock and back into a no-doubles defense. Whatever the case, it's clear he recognized that position needed to be addressed, but after the goal I wonder if a different sub in a different position may not have been more appropriate.
 

Eight

Member
agree with you tainted and bradley is the easiest answer is effectively he was an "old man" out there being asked to do way too much for what he is physically capable of doing at a high level of play.

altidore showed great physical strength, toughness, touch when receiving the ball, and some creativity. two other things showed up, the first is unfortunately jozie's tendency to miss chances at key moments in big matches.

the second is he is 31 years of age and if the us is planning on he being a big part of their offense going through qualification and hopefully the world cup the us has very big problems and the answer is not gyasi zardes.

going forward i don't think berhalter is the the guy to get the us to truly be competitive at an international level. but i am not sure what is the correct direction as somehow the men's national team has become tied to mls.
 

Chongo94

Active Member
re-read this line and ask yourself who is buying those tickets because it sure as heck aren't people identifying with the us national team.

no different than when the mexican league teams come play a doubleheader at reliant and draw 30-40,000.

That’s my point though, you stop letting the Mexican FA have access to their American cash cow and you maybe begin to have a road with which to actually threaten or enforce them to clean up their mess for once. They’d surely (hopefully) attempt to police their fans and players and clean up their act to ensure that money train remains open.
 
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Moose Stuff

Active Member
agree with you tainted and bradley is the easiest answer is effectively he was an "old man" out there being asked to do way too much for what he is physically capable of doing at a high level of play.

altidore showed great physical strength, toughness, touch when receiving the ball, and some creativity. two other things showed up, the first is unfortunately jozie's tendency to miss chances at key moments in big matches.

the second is he is 31 years of age and if the us is planning on he being a big part of their offense going through qualification and hopefully the world cup the us has very big problems and the answer is not gyasi zardes.

going forward i don't think berhalter is the the guy to get the us to truly be competitive at an international level. but i am not sure what is the correct direction as somehow the men's national team has become tied to mls.

Just give Sargent every start moving forward and see what happens. Or Weah. Anyone but what we have now. And I’ll admit Jozy played OK the other night, but he ain’t the answer.
 

Eight

Member
That’s my point though, you stop letting the Mexican FA have access to their American cash cow and you maybe begin to have a road with which to actually threaten or enforce them to clean up their mess for once. They’d surely (hopefully) attempt to police their fans and players and clean up their act to ensure that money train remains open.

tragically, the only thing that matters are tickets are sold and stadiums are full and the only way those large stadiums in the us get filled is when you allow mexico to come to town.

the biggest pure soccer stadium in the states is what? 25,000?

everyone wants the money from holding that event in a stadium more than double the capacity of any soccer only stadium in the us and the only way that happens is if mexico plays in that match.

how many people who cover soccer for the us made any comments about the actions of the mexican crowd? about the [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ] pulled by mexico once again on the pitch to intimdiate us players and the officials?

did this thing even raise a blip on the us sporting horizon this morning or was espn still talking about kwahi, what's next for the lakers, and can coco win?

mexcio and their fan base does this becasuse they can and no one in concaf either has the size as a federation or the passionate fan base to do a thing about it.

the us federation is about protecting the status quo of the youth system in the us and showing how the mls is providing quality home grown talent, do you think they even have the balls to stand up to mexico let alone the economic might?
 
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