• The KillerFrogs

Uhhh...Dixon to UCLA rumor/ news

MTfrog5

Active Member
I’m over it. It he leaves, cool. If he stays, cool. Ryan Miller needs to be given a chance if he leaves. If he doesn’t work out, we will still be better off than if recruits, Noi, and Bane all jump ship by hiring someone outside the program. Miller will still be able to recruit well
 

TCUdirtbag

Active Member
Rothstein likely has best info available

My opinion only: if the buyout is all that’s in the way, UCLA doesn’t want him that bad and he doesn’t want it that bad.

So IMO, if Jamie stays, he’ll likely get a pay bump, some added resources, and we’ll be just fine. Definitely the best outcome possible (a little negative recruiting to deal with but CJD can be honest with recruits and say “yeah, I talked to UCLA because I grew up there. They won more championships than anyone. It was something I had to listen to and think about. It didn’t work out and that’s okay. TCU is my home, my alma mater, [etc.] and we are gonna win with you here.”). If he goes, we really need the hire to work out. Really, really, really - or the program will be back to the cellar and it’ll be difficult to dig out. CJD was our ace in the hole and 3 years just isn’t enough to build anything to last past his time. There’s not likely another slam dunk out there for us.
 
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Bruin Steve

New Member
And number 3 on that list is UCLA, although I would argue UCLA is #1 all time based on the bagman Sam Gilbert making sure John Wooden won all those national championships. The players from those days, including Walton, admit this was the case.

I know some of you won't read this (I know, because it is too long) but I'll post it anyway for those of you who might like to know the truth.

Most of what you read nowadays regarding Sam Gilbert is unfounded speculation...The myth has grown way out of proportion due to a lot of jealous folks who want to believe there was something undeserving in UCLA's championships.

But, I know, perhaps, more than anyone you will ever hear from on the subject. I knew both Sam Gilbert quite well. I also knew Bill Walton.

Sam Gilbert was my neighbor growing up. He was my parents' neighbor for 42 years. He built my parents' house. I went to UCLA with Bill Walton...and had several friends on the team in the early 70s. Had several classes with Bill.

As to the alleged quote by Bill--it was contained in a book that some journalist with an agenda wrote on the subject...Bill said that "he never had to worry about anything" while he was at UCLA. The author took it completely out of context to make it sound like Bill was being "taken care of" illegally. Absolutely not the case. Bill had no financial worries because he wasn't exactly from the underprivileged class. His prized possessions while at UCLA: His 10-speed bicycle...and his really nice stereo system he had in his dorm room. Both were gifts from his parents--not Sam Gilbert or anyone else. And, yes, BICYCLE...Bill didn't even drive a car in those days. And, knowing, Bill, THAT was enough to keep him from having any financial worries. Tuition, room and board was paid for by his scholarship (In-state tuition at UCLA in those days was a whopping $625 per year, BTW!).

Sam was NOT some free-spending billionaire. In fact, he may have been one of the most frugal men I've ever known. And he wasn't all that rich. He was well off, having invested in a lot of real estate...But he did it all with "other people's money"He was a general partner in all of his deals--needing to find investors. A few years back, I had a n interesting long conversation with another neighbor from down the street who was an investor in a couple of Sam's deals...We had a good laugh at all the reports of Sam allegedly handing out money to anyone...never happened.

What Sam (and his wife, Rosie, a long-time English teacher at my old high school) did do was to befriend the players, act sort of like surrogate parents to the ones who came from out of the area. They'd have the kids over to their house for backyard BBQs and to swim in their pool (the house, BTW, was not some Bel Air mansion--it was a modest 3,200 square foot 4 bedroom 3 bathroom tract house in Pacific Palisades on the wrong side of the street to have a view. As I said, Sam built the tract...My parents had the largest model in the tract--original sales price in 1966--$59,990. Sam's model sold for around $45,000). Sam and Rosie would give the kids modest gifts on their birthdays or on Christmas--a book, a record, a sweater. I'd personally seen Sam pull out a five dollar bill and give it to a kid and tell him to "go get a haircut".

But definitely nothing much larger than that. And, believe it or not, in those days, all of that was actually NOT in violation of any NCAA rules...and similar stuff went on all across college sports. The NCAA later instituted tighter rules.

BTW, Sam and Rosie were NEVER involved in recruiting. They only first met players AFTER they arrived at UCLA.

Anyway, the NCAA thoroughly investigated Sam at least twice. The only thing they ever came up with was in the very early 80s...Sam had cosigned on car loans for, IIRC, four players...HE NEVER PAID for their cars--merely cosigned on the loans so they could get credit. And none of those cars were new, expensive cars either. But, by the early 80s, that now violated NCAA regulations and UCLA was hit with a short probation over it--and vacation of the 1980 NCAA runner-up status.

What Sam also did for the kids was to help them with contract negotiations when they turned pro--he negotiated Kareem's first contract with the Milwaukee Bucks--completely free of charge...He did the same for some other players--including several USC football players (which makes it incredibly ironic any time some SC fan tries to bring up #$%^! about Sam Gilbert).

So, decades have passed since any of this...and people have attributed to the late Sam Gilbert just about every type of illegal dealing they have seen anywhere--recruiting violations, paying players large sums of cash, buying cars, etc. People have written books and articles based on twisting interviews out of context (as with the Walton quote)...But there is absolutely no evidence of any specific major violation--because it just didn't happen.
 

Bob Sugar

Active Member
I know some of you won't read this (I know, because it is too long) but I'll post it anyway for those of you who might like to know the truth.

Most of what you read nowadays regarding Sam Gilbert is unfounded speculation...The myth has grown way out of proportion due to a lot of jealous folks who want to believe there was something undeserving in UCLA's championships.

But, I know, perhaps, more than anyone you will ever hear from on the subject. I knew both Sam Gilbert quite well. I also knew Bill Walton.

Sam Gilbert was my neighbor growing up. He was my parents' neighbor for 42 years. He built my parents' house. I went to UCLA with Bill Walton...and had several friends on the team in the early 70s. Had several classes with Bill.

As to the alleged quote by Bill--it was contained in a book that some journalist with an agenda wrote on the subject...Bill said that "he never had to worry about anything" while he was at UCLA. The author took it completely out of context to make it sound like Bill was being "taken care of" illegally. Absolutely not the case. Bill had no financial worries because he wasn't exactly from the underprivileged class. His prized possessions while at UCLA: His 10-speed bicycle...and his really nice stereo system he had in his dorm room. Both were gifts from his parents--not Sam Gilbert or anyone else. And, yes, BICYCLE...Bill didn't even drive a car in those days. And, knowing, Bill, THAT was enough to keep him from having any financial worries. Tuition, room and board was paid for by his scholarship (In-state tuition at UCLA in those days was a whopping $625 per year, BTW!).

Sam was NOT some free-spending billionaire. In fact, he may have been one of the most frugal men I've ever known. And he wasn't all that rich. He was well off, having invested in a lot of real estate...But he did it all with "other people's money"He was a general partner in all of his deals--needing to find investors. A few years back, I had a n interesting long conversation with another neighbor from down the street who was an investor in a couple of Sam's deals...We had a good laugh at all the reports of Sam allegedly handing out money to anyone...never happened.

What Sam (and his wife, Rosie, a long-time English teacher at my old high school) did do was to befriend the players, act sort of like surrogate parents to the ones who came from out of the area. They'd have the kids over to their house for backyard BBQs and to swim in their pool (the house, BTW, was not some Bel Air mansion--it was a modest 3,200 square foot 4 bedroom 3 bathroom tract house in Pacific Palisades on the wrong side of the street to have a view. As I said, Sam built the tract...My parents had the largest model in the tract--original sales price in 1966--$59,990. Sam's model sold for around $45,000). Sam and Rosie would give the kids modest gifts on their birthdays or on Christmas--a book, a record, a sweater. I'd personally seen Sam pull out a five dollar bill and give it to a kid and tell him to "go get a haircut".

But definitely nothing much larger than that. And, believe it or not, in those days, all of that was actually NOT in violation of any NCAA rules...and similar stuff went on all across college sports. The NCAA later instituted tighter rules.

BTW, Sam and Rosie were NEVER involved in recruiting. They only first met players AFTER they arrived at UCLA.

Anyway, the NCAA thoroughly investigated Sam at least twice. The only thing they ever came up with was in the very early 80s...Sam had cosigned on car loans for, IIRC, four players...HE NEVER PAID for their cars--merely cosigned on the loans so they could get credit. And none of those cars were new, expensive cars either. But, by the early 80s, that now violated NCAA regulations and UCLA was hit with a short probation over it--and vacation of the 1980 NCAA runner-up status.

What Sam also did for the kids was to help them with contract negotiations when they turned pro--he negotiated Kareem's first contract with the Milwaukee Bucks--completely free of charge...He did the same for some other players--including several USC football players (which makes it incredibly ironic any time some SC fan tries to bring up #$%^! about Sam Gilbert).

So, decades have passed since any of this...and people have attributed to the late Sam Gilbert just about every type of illegal dealing they have seen anywhere--recruiting violations, paying players large sums of cash, buying cars, etc. People have written books and articles based on twisting interviews out of context (as with the Walton quote)...But there is absolutely no evidence of any specific major violation--because it just didn't happen.
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tetonfrog

Active Member
Sam Gilbert was my neighbor growing up. He was my parents' neighbor for 42 years. He built my parents' house. I went to UCLA with Bill Walton...and had several friends on the team in the early 70s. Had several classes with Bill.

As to the alleged quote by Bill--it was contained in a book that some journalist with an agenda wrote on the subject...Bill said that "he never had to worry about anything" while he was at UCLA. The author took it completely out of context to make it sound like Bill was being "taken care of" illegally. Absolutely not the case. Bill had no financial worries because he wasn't exactly from the underprivileged class. His prized possessions while at UCLA: His 10-speed bicycle...and his really nice stereo system he had in his dorm room. Both were gifts from his parents--not Sam Gilbert or anyone else. And, yes, BICYCLE...Bill didn't even drive a car in those days. And, knowing, Bill, THAT was enough to keep him from having any financial worries. Tuition, room and board was paid for by his scholarship (In-state tuition at UCLA in those days was a whopping $625 per year, BTW!).
.

I read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's autobiography and he said Gilbert gave guys "gifts" and bought tickets off players as well. That is illegal. That is what they got the Fab Five booster on, too.
 

leofrog

Active Member
Yah that was a similar feeling. I guess for me, the Schloss and GP comparison aren’t the
same. Schloss has 16 years in purple and he’s truly built a program, GP with what, 20? And we all know what he means to TCU.

Dixon at 4 years with a roster that is a real mess right now. Not to say he can’t swing the pendulum fairly quickly with a much smaller roster where impact players are easier to inject, I just don’t get the comparison between the coaches.
The roster isn’t a real mess unless he leaves. That’s when we will be fighting for scraps.
 

frogs9497

Full Member
I know some of you won't read this (I know, because it is too long) but I'll post it anyway for those of you who might like to know the truth.

Most of what you read nowadays regarding Sam Gilbert is unfounded speculation...The myth has grown way out of proportion due to a lot of jealous folks who want to believe there was something undeserving in UCLA's championships.

But, I know, perhaps, more than anyone you will ever hear from on the subject. I knew both Sam Gilbert quite well. I also knew Bill Walton.

Sam Gilbert was my neighbor growing up. He was my parents' neighbor for 42 years. He built my parents' house. I went to UCLA with Bill Walton...and had several friends on the team in the early 70s. Had several classes with Bill.

As to the alleged quote by Bill--it was contained in a book that some journalist with an agenda wrote on the subject...Bill said that "he never had to worry about anything" while he was at UCLA. The author took it completely out of context to make it sound like Bill was being "taken care of" illegally. Absolutely not the case. Bill had no financial worries because he wasn't exactly from the underprivileged class. His prized possessions while at UCLA: His 10-speed bicycle...and his really nice stereo system he had in his dorm room. Both were gifts from his parents--not Sam Gilbert or anyone else. And, yes, BICYCLE...Bill didn't even drive a car in those days. And, knowing, Bill, THAT was enough to keep him from having any financial worries. Tuition, room and board was paid for by his scholarship (In-state tuition at UCLA in those days was a whopping $625 per year, BTW!).

Sam was NOT some free-spending billionaire. In fact, he may have been one of the most frugal men I've ever known. And he wasn't all that rich. He was well off, having invested in a lot of real estate...But he did it all with "other people's money"He was a general partner in all of his deals--needing to find investors. A few years back, I had a n interesting long conversation with another neighbor from down the street who was an investor in a couple of Sam's deals...We had a good laugh at all the reports of Sam allegedly handing out money to anyone...never happened.

What Sam (and his wife, Rosie, a long-time English teacher at my old high school) did do was to befriend the players, act sort of like surrogate parents to the ones who came from out of the area. They'd have the kids over to their house for backyard BBQs and to swim in their pool (the house, BTW, was not some Bel Air mansion--it was a modest 3,200 square foot 4 bedroom 3 bathroom tract house in Pacific Palisades on the wrong side of the street to have a view. As I said, Sam built the tract...My parents had the largest model in the tract--original sales price in 1966--$59,990. Sam's model sold for around $45,000). Sam and Rosie would give the kids modest gifts on their birthdays or on Christmas--a book, a record, a sweater. I'd personally seen Sam pull out a five dollar bill and give it to a kid and tell him to "go get a haircut".

But definitely nothing much larger than that. And, believe it or not, in those days, all of that was actually NOT in violation of any NCAA rules...and similar stuff went on all across college sports. The NCAA later instituted tighter rules.

BTW, Sam and Rosie were NEVER involved in recruiting. They only first met players AFTER they arrived at UCLA.

Anyway, the NCAA thoroughly investigated Sam at least twice. The only thing they ever came up with was in the very early 80s...Sam had cosigned on car loans for, IIRC, four players...HE NEVER PAID for their cars--merely cosigned on the loans so they could get credit. And none of those cars were new, expensive cars either. But, by the early 80s, that now violated NCAA regulations and UCLA was hit with a short probation over it--and vacation of the 1980 NCAA runner-up status.

What Sam also did for the kids was to help them with contract negotiations when they turned pro--he negotiated Kareem's first contract with the Milwaukee Bucks--completely free of charge...He did the same for some other players--including several USC football players (which makes it incredibly ironic any time some SC fan tries to bring up #$%^! about Sam Gilbert).

So, decades have passed since any of this...and people have attributed to the late Sam Gilbert just about every type of illegal dealing they have seen anywhere--recruiting violations, paying players large sums of cash, buying cars, etc. People have written books and articles based on twisting interviews out of context (as with the Walton quote)...But there is absolutely no evidence of any specific major violation--because it just didn't happen.

From now on, you shall be referred to as Deep Blue.
 
"Should".....Dixon decide to leave and his contractual buyout is negated or negotiated for an amount less than the

current contract calls for......then someone should be summarily terminated.
 

Boomhauer

Active Member
If the buyout is the hang up, then he is getting played no matter who they choose. It does seems like UCLA is holding out for bigger names.

Yeah, think UCLA is having second thoughts after seeing that buyout. Don’t blame them and if I were them I’d wait until after the final four and go after Beard or Bennett if that’s who they really want.
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
I know some of you won't read this (I know, because it is too long) but I'll post it anyway for those of you who might like to know the truth.

Most of what you read nowadays regarding Sam Gilbert is unfounded speculation...The myth has grown way out of proportion due to a lot of jealous folks who want to believe there was something undeserving in UCLA's championships.

But, I know, perhaps, more than anyone you will ever hear from on the subject. I knew both Sam Gilbert quite well. I also knew Bill Walton.

Sam Gilbert was my neighbor growing up. He was my parents' neighbor for 42 years. He built my parents' house. I went to UCLA with Bill Walton...and had several friends on the team in the early 70s. Had several classes with Bill.

As to the alleged quote by Bill--it was contained in a book that some journalist with an agenda wrote on the subject...Bill said that "he never had to worry about anything" while he was at UCLA. The author took it completely out of context to make it sound like Bill was being "taken care of" illegally. Absolutely not the case. Bill had no financial worries because he wasn't exactly from the underprivileged class. His prized possessions while at UCLA: His 10-speed bicycle...and his really nice stereo system he had in his dorm room. Both were gifts from his parents--not Sam Gilbert or anyone else. And, yes, BICYCLE...Bill didn't even drive a car in those days. And, knowing, Bill, THAT was enough to keep him from having any financial worries. Tuition, room and board was paid for by his scholarship (In-state tuition at UCLA in those days was a whopping $625 per year, BTW!).

Sam was NOT some free-spending billionaire. In fact, he may have been one of the most frugal men I've ever known. And he wasn't all that rich. He was well off, having invested in a lot of real estate...But he did it all with "other people's money"He was a general partner in all of his deals--needing to find investors. A few years back, I had a n interesting long conversation with another neighbor from down the street who was an investor in a couple of Sam's deals...We had a good laugh at all the reports of Sam allegedly handing out money to anyone...never happened.

What Sam (and his wife, Rosie, a long-time English teacher at my old high school) did do was to befriend the players, act sort of like surrogate parents to the ones who came from out of the area. They'd have the kids over to their house for backyard BBQs and to swim in their pool (the house, BTW, was not some Bel Air mansion--it was a modest 3,200 square foot 4 bedroom 3 bathroom tract house in Pacific Palisades on the wrong side of the street to have a view. As I said, Sam built the tract...My parents had the largest model in the tract--original sales price in 1966--$59,990. Sam's model sold for around $45,000). Sam and Rosie would give the kids modest gifts on their birthdays or on Christmas--a book, a record, a sweater. I'd personally seen Sam pull out a five dollar bill and give it to a kid and tell him to "go get a haircut".

But definitely nothing much larger than that. And, believe it or not, in those days, all of that was actually NOT in violation of any NCAA rules...and similar stuff went on all across college sports. The NCAA later instituted tighter rules.

BTW, Sam and Rosie were NEVER involved in recruiting. They only first met players AFTER they arrived at UCLA.

Anyway, the NCAA thoroughly investigated Sam at least twice. The only thing they ever came up with was in the very early 80s...Sam had cosigned on car loans for, IIRC, four players...HE NEVER PAID for their cars--merely cosigned on the loans so they could get credit. And none of those cars were new, expensive cars either. But, by the early 80s, that now violated NCAA regulations and UCLA was hit with a short probation over it--and vacation of the 1980 NCAA runner-up status.

What Sam also did for the kids was to help them with contract negotiations when they turned pro--he negotiated Kareem's first contract with the Milwaukee Bucks--completely free of charge...He did the same for some other players--including several USC football players (which makes it incredibly ironic any time some SC fan tries to bring up #$%^! about Sam Gilbert).

So, decades have passed since any of this...and people have attributed to the late Sam Gilbert just about every type of illegal dealing they have seen anywhere--recruiting violations, paying players large sums of cash, buying cars, etc. People have written books and articles based on twisting interviews out of context (as with the Walton quote)...But there is absolutely no evidence of any specific major violation--because it just didn't happen.
You were correct.
 

JogginFrog

Active Member
I know some of you won't read this (I know, because it is too long) but I'll post it anyway for those of you who might like to know the truth.
...
So, decades have passed since any of this...and people have attributed to the late Sam Gilbert just about every type of illegal dealing they have seen anywhere--recruiting violations, paying players large sums of cash, buying cars, etc. People have written books and articles based on twisting interviews out of context (as with the Walton quote)...But there is absolutely no evidence of any specific major violation--because it just didn't happen.

Appreciate the info, Bruin Steve. What do you think of this potential hire?

I listened to the GoJoeBruin podcast posted last night about Jamie's hire. I can't bring myself to link to it, because it was poorly produced. But while the guy was positive about the Dixon hire, it was clear that reaction among UCLA fans was mixed at best, and that the general sentiment was "We're settling, but he's probably unlikely to mess up the program any worse than it currently is." Even in defense of Dixon, it seemed like he was damning with faint praise, and he didn't have anything good to say about his work at TCU. About the best he could muster was, "At least he isn't Steve Alford."

I think that's why the issue with the buyout. It's not that UCLA doesn't have the money, it's that they have to sell the hire to the fan base, and once it's known that you are on your fourth? fifth? choice, you at least have to make a case that you've negotiated well.
 

Austintxfrog94

Full Member
I know some of you won't read this (I know, because it is too long) but I'll post it anyway for those of you who might like to know the truth.

Most of what you read nowadays regarding Sam Gilbert is unfounded speculation...The myth has grown way out of proportion due to a lot of jealous folks who want to believe there was something undeserving in UCLA's championships.

But, I know, perhaps, more than anyone you will ever hear from on the subject. I knew both Sam Gilbert quite well. I also knew Bill Walton.

Sam Gilbert was my neighbor growing up. He was my parents' neighbor for 42 years. He built my parents' house. I went to UCLA with Bill Walton...and had several friends on the team in the early 70s. Had several classes with Bill.

As to the alleged quote by Bill--it was contained in a book that some journalist with an agenda wrote on the subject...Bill said that "he never had to worry about anything" while he was at UCLA. The author took it completely out of context to make it sound like Bill was being "taken care of" illegally. Absolutely not the case. Bill had no financial worries because he wasn't exactly from the underprivileged class. His prized possessions while at UCLA: His 10-speed bicycle...and his really nice stereo system he had in his dorm room. Both were gifts from his parents--not Sam Gilbert or anyone else. And, yes, BICYCLE...Bill didn't even drive a car in those days. And, knowing, Bill, THAT was enough to keep him from having any financial worries. Tuition, room and board was paid for by his scholarship (In-state tuition at UCLA in those days was a whopping $625 per year, BTW!).

Sam was NOT some free-spending billionaire. In fact, he may have been one of the most frugal men I've ever known. And he wasn't all that rich. He was well off, having invested in a lot of real estate...But he did it all with "other people's money"He was a general partner in all of his deals--needing to find investors. A few years back, I had a n interesting long conversation with another neighbor from down the street who was an investor in a couple of Sam's deals...We had a good laugh at all the reports of Sam allegedly handing out money to anyone...never happened.

What Sam (and his wife, Rosie, a long-time English teacher at my old high school) did do was to befriend the players, act sort of like surrogate parents to the ones who came from out of the area. They'd have the kids over to their house for backyard BBQs and to swim in their pool (the house, BTW, was not some Bel Air mansion--it was a modest 3,200 square foot 4 bedroom 3 bathroom tract house in Pacific Palisades on the wrong side of the street to have a view. As I said, Sam built the tract...My parents had the largest model in the tract--original sales price in 1966--$59,990. Sam's model sold for around $45,000). Sam and Rosie would give the kids modest gifts on their birthdays or on Christmas--a book, a record, a sweater. I'd personally seen Sam pull out a five dollar bill and give it to a kid and tell him to "go get a haircut".

But definitely nothing much larger than that. And, believe it or not, in those days, all of that was actually NOT in violation of any NCAA rules...and similar stuff went on all across college sports. The NCAA later instituted tighter rules.

BTW, Sam and Rosie were NEVER involved in recruiting. They only first met players AFTER they arrived at UCLA.

Anyway, the NCAA thoroughly investigated Sam at least twice. The only thing they ever came up with was in the very early 80s...Sam had cosigned on car loans for, IIRC, four players...HE NEVER PAID for their cars--merely cosigned on the loans so they could get credit. And none of those cars were new, expensive cars either. But, by the early 80s, that now violated NCAA regulations and UCLA was hit with a short probation over it--and vacation of the 1980 NCAA runner-up status.

What Sam also did for the kids was to help them with contract negotiations when they turned pro--he negotiated Kareem's first contract with the Milwaukee Bucks--completely free of charge...He did the same for some other players--including several USC football players (which makes it incredibly ironic any time some SC fan tries to bring up #$%^! about Sam Gilbert).

So, decades have passed since any of this...and people have attributed to the late Sam Gilbert just about every type of illegal dealing they have seen anywhere--recruiting violations, paying players large sums of cash, buying cars, etc. People have written books and articles based on twisting interviews out of context (as with the Walton quote)...But there is absolutely no evidence of any specific major violation--because it just didn't happen.
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