2018 Woes - Coaching on offense

[Limp Lizard]

Year after year, with no better offensive recruits, OSU and TT have better offenses than the Frogs. It took OSU a while this, but they look good. If you watch OSU, TT, OU vs TCU....there is just a different look to their offenses which I am not knowledgeable to put a finger on which (in the case of OU) goes far beyond talent. Freshman QB after Freshman QB puts up big numbers everywhere but Fort Worth...our guys have to get experience and will be better in a year or two or three. Yeah, yeah, injuries (see my post on Scheduling). But this bunch looks like a highly talented group playing sandlot football.

The OL...I remember a couple of years ago when Thomsen was named as the new OL coach and elation follower here. Then I looked up his offensive stats...not so good. Mediocre sacks given up in 2012 at Tech, then Arizona State 2013-2016 NEVER got out of the 100's rank in sacks given up! Basically many here loved him more here because 1) He played football at TCU; 2)He actually played OL!; and most importantly...3) he wasn't Anderson.

Somewhere there is a really hot, not up-and-coming, but HOT P5 OC and an OL FBS coach that has fantastic numbers and we can money whip to come to TCU. LIke Wes said, time to start anew. Time for Donati to show that he, too, can squeeze money out of people.

 

[Limey Frog]

We need to hire a decent OC who runs a scheme that fits our overall philosophy and (most importantly) defensive scheme--i.e. committed to a clock-control ground game. Then we need to tell that OC that he can hire whomever he needs, and fire whomever necessary.

We will suck butt until that happens.

 

[Eight]

We need to hire a decent OC who runs a scheme that fits our overall philosophy and (most importantly) defensive scheme--i.e. committed to a clock-control ground game. Then we need to tell that OC that he can hire whomever he needs, and fire whomever necessary.

We will suck butt until that happens.

there are two big key's in limey's post

first, cumbie was brought in with meachum to put in the offense we saw in 2014 through 2016 which is not the offense we have seen since as patterson does not want the hunh run due to the pressure placed on the defense

can sonny scheme a different type of offense other than that offense? to date mixed results, but where this gets tough is deciding is the issue all on sonny? that he has a staff that doesn't fit his scheme? that the offensive staff aren't skilled at developing talent? that the talent is missing key positions such as offensive line? all of the above? none of the above?

my concern is not only patterson's loyalty to the gang of 4, but also that he has made comments that he believes coaches can coach any position and he doesn't buy into the idea of expertise on a side of the ball or a position

 

[Sebastian S]

We thought we hit the jackpot with the hiring of Meacham and Cumbie... turns out they just found a way to make better use of Boykin and Doctson.

 

[wes]

there are two big key's in limey's post

first, cumbie was brought in with meachum to put in the offense we saw in 2014 through 2016 which is not the offense we have seen since as patterson does not want the hunh run due to the pressure placed on the defense

can sonny scheme a different type of offense other than that offense? to date mixed results, but where this gets tough is deciding is the issue all on sonny? that he has a staff that doesn't fit his scheme? that the offensive staff aren't skilled at developing talent? that the talent is missing key positions such as offensive line? all of the above? none of the above?

my concern is not only patterson's loyalty to the gang of 4, but also that he has made comments that he believes coaches can coach any position and he doesn't buy into the idea of expertise on a side of the ball or a position

I'm setting myself up for arguments with this post, but that's okay.

I would favor an offense that is similar to what Art Briles ran (yeah I know, but he had a great offense).

That is an offense based on a power run game and vertical passing. I'm not suggesting that we bring Briles out of "retirement", nor am I suggesting that we hire his scuzzy son. But you might look for somebody who's run that type of offense. That could be someone like Rhett Lashlee at SMU or Sterlin Gilbert at South Florida.

Just my $.02.. Fire away

 

[TX_Krötenechse]

I'm setting myself up for arguments with this post, but that's okay.

I would favor an offense that is similar to what Art Briles ran (yeah I know, but he had a great offense).

That is an offense based on a power run game and vertical passing. I'm not suggesting that we bring Briles out of "retirement", nor am I suggesting that we hire his scuzzy son. But you might look for somebody who's run that type of offense. That could be someone like Rhett Lashlee at SMU or Sterlin Gilbert at South Florida.

Just my $.02.. Fire away

With the renewed focus on called illegal man downfield penalties, a lot of the bite has been taken out of the Briles offense. A lot of their success was based on committing to a run block look on passing plays, which made the safeties take the first step in the wrong direction ... but they can’t really get away with that anymore.

 

[wes]

With the renewed focus on called illegal man downfield penalties, a lot of the bite has been taken out of the Briles offense. A lot of their success was based on committing to a run block look on passing plays, which made the safeties take the first step in the wrong direction ... but they can’t really get away with that anymore.

His son is running pretty well down in Houston.

 

[Eight]

I'm setting myself up for arguments with this post, but that's okay.

I would favor an offense that is similar to what Art Briles ran (yeah I know, but he had a great offense).

That is an offense based on a power run game and vertical passing. I'm not suggesting that we bring Briles out of "retirement", nor am I suggesting that we hire his scuzzy son. But you might look for somebody who's run that type of offense. That could be someone like Rhett Lashlee at SMU or Sterlin Gilbert at South Florida.

Just my $.02.. Fire away

i do like the idea of a power run game combined with the vertical passing game and think it can be accomplished without directly copying the briles offense.

in all honesty look at what iowa state is doing with the run game and one big receiver. keys are you have to be committed to the offense, you have to be able to teach it, and you have to be able to control the line of scrimmage

 

[wes]

i do like the idea of a power run game combined with the vertical passing game and think it can be accomplished without directly copying the briles offense.

in all honesty look at what iowa state is doing with the run game and one big receiver. keys are you have to be committed to the offense, you have to be able to teach it, and you have to be able to control the line of scrimmage

The line is the key to everything

I was excited when Coach Thomsen came on board and I know that he inherited line with four future NFL players, so I take that into consideration. However, he's got better size supposably equal to or better talent than before and they have been relatively injury free, but the fact that the line has not improved and in some ways seems to be regressing is bothersome to me. I don't know if it's coaching, bad talent or what but they are going backwards as a unit and that comment from a WVU Player in another post, is telling. He said the line was big and strong but they don't use good footwork and that's part of the technique that the OL coach needs to teach them. I think the Thomsen does that, but I am not sure. Anderson did not work with them on foot work

 

[Portland Frog]

I was actually surprised the OL had only given up 8 sacks on the season before the first one they gave up IIRC in the 2nd quarter against WVU. I don't know how many sacks followed that first one in the game. The OL was pretty good last year. Yet this year's line doesn't seem to be getting better as the season moves forward in the running game certainly. I mean it doesn't get much worse than -7 yards on 24 carries against WVU.

So is the coaching that bad or just the personnel combinations on the OL aren't that good this season because of a lack of experience? Or are injuries an impact? The OL did well up to aOSU this year. I don't have the answers, I am just seeing these contradictions from one year to the next and scratching my head as a fan.

 

[4th. down]

Our current situation is not going to correct itself playing a pat hand. It's going to be same dice, same shooters. Basically, the same class returns next year. Don't expect much of a change even if Rogers starts the 1st. game. QB is not really our primary concern right now but offensive/defensive LEADERSHIP sure is - after the fumble kick off, we said, oh hell, it's over and quit.

And too, GP, these teams are killing us with the flat pass and wheel routes, Dana even said it was kinda obvious and simplify your defensive signals when the opposing team goes up tempo. These youngsters are missing too many calls. In other words Gary, as you have said so many times "you have to reinvent yourself."

 

[Eight]

i wrote this elsewhere that i am curious if we got a glimpse of that what was going to happen with the interior offensive line when morris went out for a few games and the run game struggled was cordel had some issues.

i have been told by a high school coach at a program south of houston that one of our younger offensive linemen in 2016 was very frustrated and considering a transfer because he felt there was very little positional coaching taking place and more discussion of schemes versus technique work.

 

[Eight]

Our current situation is not going to correct itself playing a pat hand. It's going to be same dice, same shooters. Basically, the same class returns next year. Don't expect much of a change even if Rogers starts the 1st. game. QB is not really our primary concern right now but offensive/defensive LEADERSHIP sure is - after the fumble kick off, we said, oh hell, it's over and quit.

And too, GP, these teams are killing us with the flat pass and wheel routes, Dana even said it was kinda obvious and simplify your defensive signals when the opposing team goes up tempo. These youngsters are missing too many calls. In other words Gary, as you have said so many times "you have to reinvent yourself."

this is my biggest concern in this entire matter.

does gary have the energy and interest to tear down and rebuild on both sides of the ball or does he stay with what is comfortable and rolls the dice

 

[FrogCop19]

I was actually surprised the OL had only given up 8 sacks on the season before the first one they gave up IIRC in the 2nd quarter against WVU. I don't know how many sacks followed that first one in the game. The OL was pretty good last year. Yet this year's line doesn't seem to be getting better as the season moves forward in the running game certainly. I mean it doesn't get much worse than -7 yards on 24 carries against WVU.

So is the coaching that bad or just the personnel combinations on the OL aren't that good this season because of a lack of experience? Or are injuries an impact? The OL did well up to aOSU this year. I don't have the answers, I am just seeing these contradictions from one year to the next and scratching my head as a fan.

In my coaching experience (going on 11 years now), footwork is vital. Obviously having all three is preferable, but proper technique and strength can overcome speed. Because of this, some people's comments on speed isn't 100% accurate in my opinion.

If you have technique and strength in pass protection (something the WVU player said we had), speed can become a relative non-issue. A pass rush can be negated by stepping up to the defender and stopping his forward momentum, or even sidestepping properly and picking up a blitz through a gap. Those can be accomplished with technique and strength. which the aforementioned player said we could. We are big and strong, and going head up on us trying to bulldoze past us is difficult.

Oddly enough, speed matters more on run plays. You need to get to where they are, quickly, attack the correct shoulder, and push them in the direction you want them to go to open a hole in their line. If you don't attack at the correct angle fast enough, they can simply run around you and clog the hole up, allowing them to hit the ball carrier in the backfield or forcing the back to bounce it outside where the linebackers clean up.

It's a shield (protecting a single person behind your line) vs. a spear thrust (opening a hole in the line for a running back). A shield doesn't need to be fast, just strong. A spear thrust needs to be fast and accurate.

My opinion.

 

[4th. down]

this is my biggest concern in this entire matter.

does gary have the energy and interest to tear down and rebuild on both sides of the ball or does he stay with what is comfortable and rolls the dice

I think he has the energy but he is in a funk. The tale of the tape will be right after the final signing date. If he is going to do anything, he won't announce it until then. Personally, no changes and we continue on along the path that we are currently on.

Think about how the Big 12 is shaping up for next year - OU, Texas, Iowa State will be good and believe it or not, TT will just be out of that group. Where does that leave us, maybe 5th. or if WV finds another QB, 6th.

 

[Eight]

don't discount ok state as well

offensively they do replace the qb, but could return both backs, 3 receivers and 4 in the o-line

the big challege is the d-line for them

 

[Dogfrog]

As I recall in preseason comparison of Robinson and Collins, GP said he liked SR’s escapability. Maybe that was a hint regarding our OL.

 

[4th. down]

As I recall in preseason comparison of Robinson and Collins, GP said he liked SR’s escapability. Maybe that was a hint regarding our OL.

Well, maybe, but he also said right before our 1st. game that he thought we had 8 offensive linemen now that could rotate. I admit though, he didn't say they were any good, just that he had 8.

 

[Eight]

Well, maybe, but he also said right before our 1st. game that he thought we had 8 offensive linemen now that could rotate. I admit though, he didn't say they were any good, just that he had 8.

maybe he meant that they were interchangeable because after cordel i am not really able to tell much difference in whomever plays in the interior line

 

[Portland Frog]

Well, maybe, but he also said right before our 1st. game that he thought we had 8 offensive linemen now that could rotate. I admit though, he didn't say they were any good, just that he had 8.

IIRC CGP said sometime during fall camp, the OL was one of the most improved units in fall camp compared to their performance in the spring. But I could be wrong.