Why doesnt our defense force turnovers anymore?

[Eight]

I think it would be a completely different picture had Ross Blacklock not been injured but it's also clearly evident that is backups simply don't have it.

i read people write this, but they don't have to be ross to be helpful

frogs don't have the personnel to continually run the 3-3-5 and be effective rushing the passer over the course of a game. broadnax, cooper, and ellis would at the last take up a blocker and allow ben and lj to play on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackles

in the third and fourth quarter ben, corey and lj got rushed about as effectively as the light brigade.

again, they don't have to be ross, they just need to be able to take up a blocker because right now at least 2 of those 3 get doubled every passing play in the 3-man front

 

[Froggy Style]

I think Gary has been shifting to the Iowa State defense but doesn’t yet know how to coach it. Kansas even runs it with people squatting in the flats, but ensuring no balls over the top. Gary gets frustrated and blitzes and gives up long plays to RBs or WRs running deep.

We seem to have lost identity on O and D.

 

[Eight]

I think Gary has been shifting to the Iowa State defense but doesn’t yet know how to coach it. Kansas even runs it with people squatting in the flats, but ensuring no balls over the top. Gary gets frustrated and blitzes and gives up long plays to RBs or WRs running deep.

We seem to have lost identity on O and D.

who is on this defensive staff who does know how to coach it?

who is on this defensive staff who will stand up and say i think we need to this instead of that?

coaches evolve, they "steal" concepts from each other, but that sometimes means bringing in someone who knows it and can implement it and i don't see that happening with gary running the defense

 

[Limey Frog]

Defensive front isn't disruptive enough, linebackers and safeties don't "get" the system enough to anticipate and be where they need to be before the ball gets there (See Paul Dawson vs. OU in 2014).

Our whole system is predicated on getting turnovers. We'll give up big plays here and there, but more often we'll get stops and quite often we'll get turnovers. When those aren't true, we're no good. When that's not true AND our offense has the fumbles, we're worse than Kansas.

The diagnosis is simple. Just what GP will do to fix it is up to him.

 

[Wexahu]

as pointed out, at some point gary has to stop trying to out scheme people and putting his players in positions where they are in over their heads and put the defense in base and just go freaking execute.

Interesting, and I think you're on to something here. I have noticed that when we've been burned for big plays this year GP's reaction on the sidelines has been one where he knows he screwed up. In the past, he's usually jumping all over a kid who missed an assignment. To me that shows that our guys aren't being put in the best positions and that the coaches are trying to out-scheme the other team.

I agree, I don't have as sharp an eye for the details as those who coach of course and others who are all over the x's and o's of the game, but this defense we're seeing looks unrecognizable at times to the semi-informed observer.

 

[Eight]

Defensive front isn't disruptive enough, linebackers and safeties don't "get" the system enough to anticipate and be where they need to be before the ball gets there (See Paul Dawson vs. OU in 2014).

Our whole system is predicated on getting turnovers. We'll give up big plays here and there, but more often we'll get stops and quite often we'll get turnovers. When those aren't true, we're no good. When that's not true AND our offense has the fumbles, we're worse than Kansas.

playing a 3-man front with frogs personnel doesn't mesh

in regards to safeties and linebackers there is a few common threads

i agree that this defense has moved away from what it was once to an identity i am not sure what they are trying to do

 

[PO Frog]

playing a 3-man front with frogs personnel doesn't mesh

in regards to safeties and linebackers there is a few common threads

i agree that this defense has moved away from what it was once to an identity i am not sure what they are trying to do

I said on another thread the bad tackling is just more apparent now because we don’t swarm the ball like we used to. Competition level of
Course means something but I think the spread has made it to where GP has to have perfect personnel to compete (forget dominating anymore) and that’s only going to happen every few years because of our place in the recruiting pecking order.

 

[Eight]

I said on another thread the bad tackling is just more apparent now because we don’t swarm the ball like we used to. Competition level of
Course means something but I think the spread has made it to where GP has to have perfect personnel to compete (forget dominating anymore) and that’s only going to happen every few years because of our place in the recruiting pecking order.

the tackling problems are perplexing.

tackling can be taught and at one time this was a defensive program that tackled very well.

young players don't always tackle well, for example trevon on the last ku td catch and run reaches out and lunges at the ku back instead of breaking down, etc.....doubt he saw many players with similar skills sets at smithson and he looked flat footed

that case wasn't as surprising as wallow for example still not breaking down and lunging. i am curious if tcu has changed how they teach tackling and how much time they spend on it with the recent concerns on concussions.

in regards to the need for the perfect personnel then there is a big problem

 

[PO Frog]

If three,four, and five year players can’t line up right, your defense is too complicated.

 

[BigCheefTCU]

To get turnovers you have to play with aggresniff, rushing 3 and dropping 8 is certainly not. GMFP is clearly terrified of the big play with the players he had in there right now. So much so that we aren’t even jamming receivers when it’s 3 and 3 and we just give up 5 yards in routes over and over. Take some risks GMFP, turnovers are the only way to save this cute misdirection offense cumbie keeps rolling out there. Gotta be more aggresniff on both sides

 

[jake102]

If three,four, and five year players can’t line up right, your defense is too complicated.

Nah the problem is that 1st and 2nd year players can't line up right. That's always been the case on GPs defense. We haven't had a stacked group of safeties since 2014 and our LBs have fallen off a cliff.

 

[Eight]

Nah the problem is that 1st and 2nd year players can't line up right. That's always been the case on GPs defense. We haven't had a stacked group of safeties since 2014 and our LBs have fallen off a cliff.

still the same cause

if the defense requires perfection to execute then something is wrong

 

[LovesFrogsNDogs]

FUN FACT MONDAY
TCU's national rankings out of 129 teams:
Turnover margin: 120th
Red Zone Offense: 128th

 

[jake102]

still the same cause

if the defense requires perfection to execute then something is wrong

Nope, doesn't need perfection. Unless you are looking for a top 5 defense. But any system (outside of Alabama and Clemson) is going to need older, better players with minimal injuries to be a top 5 defense.

I made the comment before last game that I think GP needs to dumb it down in the secondary since we are basically playing with a bunch of 2nd stringers, so I don't totally disagree. Just don't think we need to change our defense due to a huge number of injuries.

 

[Eight]

Nope, doesn't need perfection. Unless you are looking for a top 5 defense. But any system (outside of Alabama and Clemson) is going to need older, better players with minimal injuries to be a top 5 defense.

I made the comment before last game that I think GP needs to dumb it down in the secondary since we are basically playing with a bunch of 2nd stringers, so I don't totally disagree. Just don't think we need to change our defense due to a huge number of injuries.

markell, vernon, ridwan are all safeties who have been in the system at least 3 years. two have been starters

dunham and evans are linebackers who have been in the sytem at least 4 years.

 

[Wexahu]

still the same cause

if the defense requires perfection to execute then something is wrong

eight, do you think the adjustments GP appears to be making (getting away from four down-lineman getting upfield and attacking) has anything to do with being overly concerned with QBs taking off and running? Personally, I do, and it seems like it's taken away the attacking, aggressive nature our defense once had. I don't remember seeing our lineman just seem like they are looking to contain near this much in the past.

 

[Jefffrog1993]

Some things I haven’t seen discussed regarding our defense:

We do a terrible job disguising our rushes, blitzes, coverage zone versus man to man. We are very predictable.

We need to mix up our defensive coverages and confuse qb,s. We need to blitz more, but not give it away pre snap. We used to zone blitz qb would throw to receiver when cb blitzes and our safety rolls up and we got pick 6.

We can’t get off blocks like we used to. Holding in big 12 is an epidemic so we have to keep the olinemans hands off us or we are stuck like glue.

Gp’s defense ends have always brought the pressure and were almost unblockable. We aren’t getting that rush now: Could be talent, but for sure offenses are getting rid of the ball quicker than ever.

We don’t do a good job of knocking down passess. Most of our d is shorter and faster. We could use some height and get our hands up coaching.

We need to run press man coverage more and get pass rush. Press man can disrupt timing of plays. We never seem to jam receivers tight ends rb’s coming out of backfield.

We need to bring one more player than the offense has a blocker and hit the qb hard even if they complete the passes. Qbs hate getting hit.

 

[Wexahu]

markell, vernon, ridwan are all safeties who have been in the system at least 3 years. two have been starters

dunham and evans are linebackers who have been in the sytem at least 4 years.

And there is a difference in being able to cover people and being able to recognize things and knowing who to cover. I think our problems are much more with the latter. I think Ridwan and Scott both came in as CB prospects so their coverage skills in terms of just staying with guys ought to be at least to Safety standards.

 

[Eight]

eight, do you think the adjustments GP appears to be making (getting away from four down-lineman getting upfield and attacking) has anything to do with being overly concerned with QBs taking off and running? Personally, I do, and it seems like it's taken away the attacking, aggressive nature our defense once had. I don't remember seeing our lineman just seem like they are looking to contain near this much in the past.

really have no idea as we seem to be caught in a loop of running the same things that have been run in the past against teams and offensive schemes

pharm pointed out the frogs have been burnt by a running quarterback against that scheme.

it doesn't look like we are trying to spy some i don't understand rushing and dropping way back if that is the concern.

 

[Wexahu]

pharm pointed out the frogs have been burnt by a running quarterback against that scheme.

Yes, we have, but I've always thought that, over time, a QB running all over the place eventually takes its toll on the QB. Think of him as a RB that never gets to come off the field. By the end of the game that guy would be completely exhausted. Don't see why a QB would be any different. Keep pressuring a QB and making him elude defenders and run for his life (and yes, sometimes a first down) and eventually he'll start making mistakes that really tired players make.

I just hate letting a guy stand back there forever looking for receivers. No defense I've ever seen worth a crap doesn't make getting after the QB with relentless pressure priority #1.