• The KillerFrogs

Why doesnt our defense force turnovers anymore?

Pharm Frog

Full Member
IMO Gary is way too concerned about QBs beating him with their legs. Our D-lineman hardly ever pin their ears back and rush, they are usually playing containment. Gives the passer all day to throw if they want it.

Interesting take given that two of the most crucial plays against us this season have been QBs running for a TD and a long 3rd down conversion
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Interesting take given that two of the most crucial plays against us this season have been QBs running for a TD and a long 3rd down conversion

Well yeah, you gotta leave someone in the front 6 or 7 to spy the QB, can’t have a total breakdown. But if you want to pressure the QB you gotta get after him.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
Well yeah, you gotta leave someone in the front 6 or 7 to spy the QB, can’t have a total breakdown. But if you want to pressure the QB you gotta get after him.

Wasn’t implying you were wrong just that in two critical moments we didn’t account for that if it’s an imperative. What I don’t understand is still not being able to account for the RB.
 

Big Frog II

Active Member
The bottom line is the lack of pass rush. When you pressure the QB they can make bad decisions and bad throws. Too, too often a three man rush gives the QB time enough to find someone open.
 

pgdaly84

Active Member
Anyone who thinks we don't have any difference makers on defense is crazy. Banogu is a terrific player and he's consistently created pressure in every game this year. The problem is that, when you only have one D-lineman to really worry about then it's very easy for offenses to gamelan around that. You have to have 3 or more difference makers up front to be really good and without Blacklock we've got only one.

All those 3 man rushes aren't doing Ben any favors either because that makes it astronomically easier to block him.

Banogu is a good player. He can be a difference maker, but name one guy in the back 7 that has made an impact play or that other teams would actually fear. There aren’t any without Gaines. We have a bunch of solid players, but there aren’t any game changers.
 

East Coast

Tier 1
I remember Gary telling the defensive line during fall camp after Blacklock went down that the starting Rose Bowl defensive line would be something like 3rd string now at TCU and to cheer up. #fakenews

I'd agree with this at DT, but Daniels would start over Collins and a young Maponga would be in the 2 deep. In the back 7, I'd take Carder, Brock, Gardner and Cain over any of our current LB"s, Gladney starts over McCoy, but Teague also starts at CB. Safety is even worse - Gaines over Ibolye, but TJ and Colin Jones start, with Alex, Luttrell, and Cuba on the field before any of our other current safeties.

Now if you are talking about recruiting ratings, or sheer athleticism the story is different.
 

BABYFACE

Full Member
I remember Gary telling the defensive line during fall camp after Blacklock went down that the starting Rose Bowl defensive line would be something like 3rd string now at TCU and to cheer up. #fakenews

Bethley has been solid, not superstar but definitely solid. Banago has been good like yesterday and also absent some games so far this season. The rest of them, could not tell you one name that sticks out.

Hard to stick out as a DL when only rushing 3 with no LB or DB blitz.
 

TX_Krötenechse

Active Member
We don’t force turnovers because our defense has no difference makers with Blacklock and Gaines out. We have a defense full of B and B- players. There’s not a single guy on our D that would have started on any of our top defenses.
Idiotic.

Banogu and Bethley are both A or A+ players. Summers, when healthy and playing LB, is a difference maker. Gladney is as good a coverage CB as we’ve had since Verrett graduated.
 

jake102

Active Member
Idiotic.

Banogu and Bethley are both A or A+ players. Summers, when healthy and playing LB, is a difference maker. Gladney is as good a coverage CB as we’ve had since Verrett graduated.

Kevin White was better. But Gladney is a good player

It’s safety where we are no good without Gaines.
 

Mean Purple

Active Member
Kevin White was better. But Gladney is a good player

It’s safety where we are no good without Gaines.
Was Kevin the one who laid that dude out in the one game and the video highlight was out there for years?
Dude came clean and brought the whole dang warehouse.
 

TX_Krötenechse

Active Member
Was Kevin the one who laid that dude out in the one game and the video highlight was out there for years?
Dude came clean and brought the whole dang warehouse.
That was Marvin White, who played safety. Kevin White was a corner (years after M White graduated) who played across from Verrett and then was our lockdown corner the following year.
 

Eight

Member
written elsewhere and will throw it out here

the 3-3-5 we saw much of the second half against kansas is the same scheme that tcu ran in the second half against kansas in lawrence in 2016

anyone recall how well that worked in 2016?

i think gary has surrounded himself with a defensive staff loyal to him and in some cases are doing a good job teaching, but there isn't anyone who will question him.

don't think it happened on purpose, but there has to be at least one person on that defensive staff who will fill the bumpas role and call [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ].

as pointed out, at some point gary has to stop trying to out scheme people and putting his players in positions where they are in over their heads and put the defense in base and just go freaking execute.

we had upperclassmen at linebacker who continually blow pass coverage assignments, defensive linemen who were worn out by the end of the third quarter, and yet keep doing the same thing again and again
 

riffram2011

Active Member
Easy. Because turnovers are largely luck.

KU is first or second in forced turnovers. You think they are a very talented defense? Phil Steele has an article every year called “turnovers=turnaround” or something like that. The gist is that teams that force a lot of turnovers (or turnover the ball a lot) are likely to regress to the mean the next year. Sure the better teams tend be slightly + in TO ratio because teams behind take more chances. But the outliers at the extremes almost never repeat.

This is very true, but I feel like TCU has not forced fumbles very much this year, OR had a bunch of interceptions that were just dropped. That being said, the mind tends to cloud the true facts here. I do know though that outside of the Tech game, we have had horrific offensive fumble luck.

If you take away the Tech game (4 fumbles, 1 lost), TCU has fumbled the ball 12 times, and lost 8 of them.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2015/1/30/7947287/college-football-turnover-luck-2014-tcu-oklahoma

As this piece noted, TCU had some INCREDIBLE turnover luck in 2014.
 

wes

KIllerfrog Emeritus
Pass rush is non existent for the most part. Correct that and you get turnovers from the secondary. Always been the formula under Patterson.
I think it would be a completely different picture had Ross Blacklock not been injured but it's also clearly evident that is backups simply don't have it.
 
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