• The KillerFrogs

What happened to TCU football in the sixties?

I think the four biggest issues (and there were many) were:
1. The arrival of two-platoon football severely limited the ability of many teams to compete. The larger, richer schools could stockpile players and smaller schools suddenly found themselves at a huge talent deficit. Although there had been dominant teams in the past (e.g., Oklahoma in the late '50s) this change ushered in the era of big-school dominance.
2. The administration was, at best, diffident toward athletics. TCU was making the transition from a liberal arts college to a national university and the focus was all on fund-raising for academic improvement.
3. State schools were beginning to undergo a massive leap in enrollments fueled by the baby boom and TCU was too expensive to compete. In 1965 tuition at TCU was $25 a credit hour; at UT, A&M and other state institutions it was $4.
4. The addition of Tech (with the support and sponsorship of TCU) to the SWC severely crimped TCU's recruiting in West Texas, which had previously been our main recruiting field. At the same time, Oklahoma began recruiting in Texas extensively in the 1950s. This especially hurt our recruiting in Wichita Falls and Abilene, HS powerhouse areas in those days.

After Jim Pittman died on the sidelines of the Baylor game, the administration took the cheap and easy way out and hired Billy Tohill from within rather than recruit a coach. He was followed by the Jim Shofner recruiting-with-a-postcard era and the decay of the program accelerated.
 

HToady

Full Member
The ability of Texas and Arkansas to park top players on the bench was key to the smaller schools failures, but TCU also lacked the monetary commitment to compete for those players. I blame Moudy and Winnedegger especially for the condition our athletic facilities were in, and their lack of willingness to do anything to keep up. Our current administrators have proven that you can.
 

froginaustin

Active Member
I generally agree with BigRed with 1 major exception and 1 minor detail.

Major: Billy Tohill had many qualities that kept him from being a success as a head coach. "Lazy" was definitely not among his several negatives.

Minor: Tuition at state schools in Texas, in the mid-1960's, was $50 a semester for full time students. But point taken-- kids could attend UTx or some other state school for basically room, board, and books (and Austin was a cheap place to live in those years, unlike today), and in huge numbers kids did just that.

About the mid-60's, governing bodies of state colleges in Texas figured out that various fees could be charged to students. Tuition by other names. But still the difference in cost was so dramatic that TCU students were teased about being "rich", whether they were or not.
 

4th. down

Active Member
I think the four biggest issues (and there were many) were:
1. The arrival of two-platoon football severely limited the ability of many teams to compete. The larger, richer schools could stockpile players and smaller schools suddenly found themselves at a huge talent deficit. Although there had been dominant teams in the past (e.g., Oklahoma in the late '50s) this change ushered in the era of big-school dominance.
2. The administration was, at best, diffident toward athletics. TCU was making the transition from a liberal arts college to a national university and the focus was all on fund-raising for academic improvement.
3. State schools were beginning to undergo a massive leap in enrollments fueled by the baby boom and TCU was too expensive to compete. In 1965 tuition at TCU was $25 a credit hour; at UT, A&M and other state institutions it was $4.
4. The addition of Tech (with the support and sponsorship of TCU) to the SWC severely crimped TCU's recruiting in West Texas, which had previously been our main recruiting field. At the same time, Oklahoma began recruiting in Texas extensively in the 1950s. This especially hurt our recruiting in Wichita Falls and Abilene, HS powerhouse areas in those days.

After Jim Pittman died on the sidelines of the Baylor game, the administration took the cheap and easy way out and hired Billy Tohill from within rather than recruit a coach. He was followed by the Jim Shofner recruiting-with-a-postcard era and the decay of the program accelerated.

Well stated, and that's the way it really was and Arkansas and Texas were so dominant. All of this and a administration that wasn't interested in putting money into athletics lead to the demise.
 

Leap Frog

Full Member
Thanks, Leap. I take back my lazy comment. Can't hang that on a sick man, but still, it doesn't appear the assistants took up the slack. Very good points about platoon football and the fact that TCU and the rest the SWC sans UT and Arky were not getting many Top 200 players. Leap, how do you feel about Pittman? He seemed to be the answer as I recall.

In my opinion, Pittman would have done a very good job. His first year, 1971, the Frogs were 6-4-1 ( 5-2 in SWC) and were tough.
He recruited the best running back in Texas (Mike Luttrell) and Tohill did the same in '72 with the addition of Ronnie Littleton.
Tohill replaced Pittman after the death, and was not capable, even though he was a very good assistant--but lacking ethics.
All this led AD Abe Martin to go for a fine person (Jim Shofner). A very good assistant in college and pros-- just not head coach.
As we now know, Frog football suffered many years of frustration. The causes were many, and TCU survived all of them.
 

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
I started TCU in 1960. Abe was a successful coach in the fifties. WE won a couple of SWC championships and went to the Cotton Bowl three times. In '60 I think we lost to UT by one point. But Arkie began its 22 year run by one TD. Did Abe stay too long? Did he ever change his offense? Why couldn't we get the Hog monkey off our backs? Defense was still stout up to the late sixties. Maybe we fired Fred Taylor a year too soon. I have heard that expressed. Anyone have any thoughtd?

I think the best answer to this is post WWII baby boomers and the following never before seen need for college degrees ever since. For instance in 1946 Texas’ enrollment was just over 15000, by the mid 60s UT had in the vicinity of 27000 an
now somewhere just over 50k. The corresponding grads, donors and state spending on such things as athletics also increase. State schools flourished at a rate small private schools couldn’t compete with. If graphed, I imagine the TCU line rose at a much flatter rate than almost any state school. While UT was spending on Memorial Stadium and other construction TCU’s big project in the late 60s early 70s was a new science building. In 1970 I recall a drab campus with little landscaping and grass so dry we set it on fire throwing paper airplanes with matches lit in them from the Wog floor of the Milton Hilton. Our baseball field itself was nice, but had no actual stadium and fewer splintered stands than many 4A high schools.
 
I started TCU in 1960. Abe was a successful coach in the fifties. WE won a couple of SWC championships and went to the Cotton Bowl three times. In '60 I think we lost to UT by one point. But Arkie began its 22 year run by one TD. Did Abe stay too long? Did he ever change his offense? Why couldn't we get the Hog monkey off our backs? Defense was still stout up to the late sixties. Maybe we fired Fred Taylor a year too soon. I have heard that expressed. Anyone have any thoughtd?

Unlimited substitutions changed things in the 60s. Almost any school could recruit a couple of dozen good players, but when you started to need dozens and dozens, things changed.
 

westoverhillbilly

Active Member
I remember reading where we didn't even staff the football program with the maximum allowable number of coaches during those years.. I do remember the 50/125 rule where Texas and Arkansas would get 50 of the best players in Texas, see who could produce and run the rest off in order to keep their scholarship total no higher than 125.. OU was probably in the mix too, we just didn't keep up with the Big 8.. Around 1970, when my older sister dated a TCU football player- I remember him telling me that A&M, TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all playing for third place in the SWC in that Ark and UT's programs were just so far advanced it was a given they would finish 1 and 2 year in and out..
 

Eight

Member
we stopped selling black jackets at the book store in the late 50's and everything went to [ Finebaum ] shortly afterwards
 

Paint It Purple

Active Member
Fred Taylor was let go of way too soon.
Many thought Coach Taylor was let go too so. My time in the program was from Coach Taylor through Shoffner. I was only a pup, but had chances to hear (or over-hear) Dutch, Abe, Frank, Elmer and a few others. I sat next to Dutch and Abe once at a baseball practice and heard them voice most every concern already typed in this thread. Many believed that Pittman ran off and ruined TCU’s association with predominantly black school athletes in DFW and Houston. Billy wasn’t like Pittman in that regard, but the damage was done. Then came the NFL style [ Finebaum ] show that was Shoffner.
 
Many thought Coach Taylor was let go too so. My time in the program was from Coach Taylor through Shoffner. I was only a pup, but had chances to hear (or over-hear) Dutch, Abe, Frank, Elmer and a few others. I sat next to Dutch and Abe once at a baseball practice and heard them voice most every concern already typed in this thread. Many believed that Pittman ran off and ruined TCU’s association with predominantly black school athletes in DFW and Houston. Billy wasn’t like Pittman in that regard, but the damage was done. Then came the NFL style [ steaming pile of Orgeron ] show that was Shoffner.


We were on board early with recruiting black athletes. Then on one day we lost Larry Dibbles, Ervin Garnett, Danny Colbert, and Hodges Mitchell. Later Raymond Rhodes transferred to Tulsa. Took us a long time to recover.
 

RufeBruton

Active Member
We were on board early with recruiting black athletes. Then on one day we lost Larry Dibbles, Ervin Garnett, Danny Colbert, and Hodges Mitchell. Later Raymond Rhodes transferred to Tulsa. Took us a long time to recover.

I was on the 3rd floor of Milton for their freshman year (jock dorm, I was a freshman swimmer). All the freshman football players were on the same floor/wing as me. I'd say that the Festival of the Golden Arches was the most fugged up event and would have run me off.....if I was forced to participate.
 

denverfrog

Active Member
A number of things contributed. Firing Fred Taylor, Pittman dying, really dumb hire in Shoefner. But, mostly, admin failing to keep up, Big state schools dolling out 100s of scholarships, our stadium could not accommodate Tv because of the high press box, a lack of commitment to athletics by Chancellor Moudy when athletic budgets exploded we didn’t reinvest SWC revenue. Our facilities in the 70s were bush league compared to others.
 
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