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FWST: What happened with this player convinced TCU’s Patterson not to recruit Patrick Mahomes

TopFrog

Lifelong Frog
What happened with this player convinced TCU’s Patterson not to recruit Patrick Mahomes

BY BIG STEAMING PILE

The man responsible for recruiting Patrick Mahomes to Texas Tech first scouted him when he was an assistant at TCU.

Back in 2012, Trey Haverty was impressed with Mahomes, then a junior quarterback at Whitehouse, and thought he was a fit for TCU. But there was a problem.

Famously, Mahomes was quite the pitcher, and TCU had just been burned by baseball players.

Read more at https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article248973590.html
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
The part about being convinced that Mahomes was gonna play pro baseball instead of college football is an embarrassing admission. Every baseball scout in the state KNEW he was gonna play college football. Hell, he literally told me that to my face.... "I like baseball... I LOVE football...".
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
The part about being convinced that Mahomes was gonna play pro baseball instead of college football is an embarrassing admission. Every baseball scout in the state KNEW he was gonna play college football. Hell, he literally told me that to my face.... "I like baseball... I LOVE football...".

Pretty much told his travel baseball teams the same thing. That said, I didn't read anything but the summary article and it mentioned Pat as a pitcher. Personally, I don't think that would have been where his optimal value would have been on the baseball field AND he didn't seem to really like that position according to my son.
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
Pretty much told his travel baseball teams the same thing. That said, I didn't read anything but the summary article and it mentioned Pat as a pitcher. Personally, I don't think that would have been where his optimal value would have been on the baseball field AND he didn't seem to really like that position according to my son.

I think if you could have gotten him to set football aside he would have used a similar quote to mine above about that as well.... "I like pitching... I LOVE playing a position". Gun to my head he was gonna end up playing outfield.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
I think if you could have gotten him to set football aside he would have used a similar quote to mine above about that as well.... "I like pitching... I LOVE playing a position". Gun to my head he was gonna end up playing outfield.

Personally I thought he was better at 3rd base when I saw him play there but pretty sure he preferred the outfield.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
So, not reading Big Steaming Pile's turgid prose. I will, however, make the assumption that in it, we find: 1.) TCU acted stupidly, 2.) TCU could have conquered the World, except... (See Point 1), 3.) The sources relied upon, and the conclusions reached by the author do not really reflect the actual facts on the ground, thus leading to a conclusion that does not reflect reality.
 

Froglaw

Full Member
So, not reading Big Steaming Pile's turgid prose. I will, however, make the assumption that in it, we find: 1.) TCU acted stupidly, 2.) TCU could have conquered the World, except... (See Point 1), 3.) The sources relied upon, and the conclusions reached by the author do not really reflect the actual facts on the ground, thus leading to a conclusion that does not reflect reality.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^

EDIT

Where is the article about , ut, OU, ND, Alabama, screwed up by not recruiting LT?

Mac needs to come deer hunting with me.
 

Zubaz

Member
Honestly, it's so hard to say how things would have shaken out had Mahomes even come here but....would he have had the same success that he did at Tech if he did? Gary wasn't going to start him in '14 over Boykin, so 14/15 would have still been the Boykin show. So he would have basically had Kenny Hill's spot to be the man in '16 and, unlike what happened, would have come back in '17 as a Senior.

Not saying we made the right call, but I think he made the right call going to Tech. I don't think he would have been utilized as well here.
 

Zubaz

Member
I don't remember Mahomes lighting up the Big 12. He was likely an above-average QB on a below-average overall team.
He was pretty elite in college, there's a reason he was a first rounder after all. 5,000 yards and 40+ touchdowns his senior year is insane, even for the Big 12. Watch that 2015 game (his Junior year) against us in Lubbock for a great example. Dude was unsackable and always pulled magic out at the right moment (same as he does in the NFL).
 

jake102

Active Member
What's more ridiculous is that Mitchell Trubisky was drafted ahead of Mahomes. Anybody who didn't realize Mahomes had a chance to be a HoF candidate was blind. I feel like NFL GMs are worse than they should be at evaluating QBs, especially in the last 5 years.

I never understood the Trubisky hype at ALL, same goes for Darnold but to a lesser extent. Goff can go in that bucket as well. Every time some guy who is tall and looks like an NFL QB from 1995 starts rocketing up the draft boards you know it's a bust. Arm talent (not just arm strength) is the #1 thing every NFL GM should be looking for, closely followed by pocket escapability.
 

Zubaz

Member
I never understood the Trubisky hype at ALL, same goes for Darnold but to a lesser extent. Goff can go in that bucket as well.
Rosen and Locker are the ones that come to mind for me. When they started rising on the draft boards I remember thinking as a college fan "....really? Them???"

Then again, I felt the same way about Josh Allen, and look what he did this year.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
What's more ridiculous is that Mitchell Trubisky was drafted ahead of Mahomes. Anybody who didn't realize Mahomes had a chance to be a HoF candidate was blind. I feel like NFL GMs are worse than they should be at evaluating QBs, especially in the last 5 years.

I never understood the Trubisky hype at ALL, same goes for Darnold but to a lesser extent. Goff can go in that bucket as well. Every time some guy who is tall and looks like an NFL QB from 1995 starts rocketing up the draft boards you know it's a bust. Arm talent (not just arm strength) is the #1 thing every NFL GM should be looking for, closely followed by pocket escapability.

I agree that Trubisky was highly overrated coming out of college but I don't remember Mahomes as being any kind of sure thing either. He was considered extremely raw and the generally thought was he wouldn't be ready and would need to sit for awhile first, but had a high upside. I think it helped him a great deal not being thrown right into the fire, relative to a few of his peers. He stepped into a great situation. Trubisky, on the other hand, basically played one year of college and was starting by week 5 in his NFL season with not a great deal of talent around him. That's almost guaranteed disaster right there.

I just think it's real easy to hindsight say that Mahomes was a surefire HOF guy and anyone who didn't see that was blind.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Rosen and Locker are the ones that come to mind for me. When they started rising on the draft boards I remember thinking as a college fan "....really? Them???"

Then again, I felt the same way about Josh Allen, and look what he did this year.

I think it's hard to tell sometimes how much stepping into a good situation helps some guys, but it obviously matters. I don't think there's any way in hell that Dak Prescott is staring at a $150M contract if he was drafted by, say, the Jets. Or the Bears. Allen is the one guy that surprised me as one I thought would be a bust but wasn't, but some of these guys are put in positions to fail right out of the gate because of bad players around them or owners, GMs and coaches being pressured to put guys in before they are ready.

Mahomes stepped into almost a perfect situation. Good players around him, and a coach that had the brains, and more importantly the power to do the right thing.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Mahomes is a special talent, to be sure, and his game and style of play certainly seem to work in the offense he is running. As many here often point out, it's the great coaches that design things around their players strengths.

Of course, the flipside is the bad coaches that hammer the square pegs into the round holes. Imagine if a savvy GM had drafted Mahomes and he wound up in the clutches of a coach who sized him up and decided that his throwing motion was all wrong, he shouldn't run at all, and put in place a plodding run-first offense around him. When the inevitable failure happens, it's all the players fault. (See: Wayne Fontes and Andre Ware)

"Success has many fathers. But failure is always an orphan."
 

jake102

Active Member
I agree that Trubisky was highly overrated coming out of college but I don't remember Mahomes as being any kind of sure thing either. He was considered extremely raw and the generally thought was he wouldn't be ready and would need to sit for awhile first, but had a high upside. I think it helped him a great deal not being thrown right into the fire, relative to a few of his peers. He stepped into a great situation. Trubisky, on the other hand, basically played one year of college and was starting by week 5 in his NFL season with not a great deal of talent around him. That's almost guaranteed disaster right there.

I just think it's real easy to hindsight say that Mahomes was a surefire HOF guy and anyone who didn't see that was blind.

Mahomes certainly wasn't a sure thing, nobody is. But if you evaluate the floors and ceilings of each player on a 1-10 scale, Mahomes floor was probably like a 3 but his ceiling was a 10 while Trubisky probably had a floor of like 3 but only a ceiling of 7. There's no doubt Mahomes being as remarkable as he is has a lot to do with going to the Chiefs. And Darnold busting has a ton to do with the Jets.

Josh Allen is definitely the guy that has surprised. He went into a mediocre/bad offensive situation and has turned into a really good player after a rocky start.

I'll call my shot now on this year's draft:
Lawrence is no brainer #1. His floor is similar to Andrew Luck
Fields needs the right situation. I don't think his ceiling is very high.
Wilson has the low floor, high ceiling rating. I'd take him #2 over Fields
I wouldn't touch Lance
I would consider taking Mac Jones over Fields as QB3 if they both fell to late 1st round. Mac Jones interviews are meaningful, apparently he's interesting. Need to find out how well he knows the game, or if Alabama's team talent has propelled him
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
Regardless of the reason I don't think we were alone in not recruiting Mahomes. And I can only assume that anyone who thinks he wouldn't have been successful here never watched Trevone Boykin play in our offense.
 

Frog Wild

Ticket Exchange Pass
What's more ridiculous is that Mitchell Trubisky was drafted ahead of Mahomes. Anybody who didn't realize Mahomes had a chance to be a HoF candidate was blind. I feel like NFL GMs are worse than they should be at evaluating QBs, especially in the last 5 years.

I never understood the Trubisky hype at ALL, same goes for Darnold but to a lesser extent. Goff can go in that bucket as well. Every time some guy who is tall and looks like an NFL QB from 1995 starts rocketing up the draft boards you know it's a bust. Arm talent (not just arm strength) is the #1 thing every NFL GM should be looking for, closely followed by pocket escapability.

EVERYONE passed on Tom Brady several times. Drafting is an inexact science, and QB misses are almost routine. Looking back and saying "we should have drafted ..." is easy.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
EVERYONE passed on Tom Brady several times. Drafting is an inexact science, and QB misses are almost routine. Looking back and saying "we should have drafted ..." is easy.
I believe there are very few teams who are actually really good or really bad at drafting. Almost all are pretty much the same. Some just get a little luckier than others. Just like the Patriots with Tom Brady.
 

Zubaz

Member
EVERYONE passed on Tom Brady several times. Drafting is an inexact science, and QB misses are almost routine. Looking back and saying "we should have drafted ..." is easy.
I mean....yes, but Brady is a really notable exception to the rule. Very very few established NFL starters are late round draft picks. Of this year's QB stock and not including guys like Wolford or Brandon Allen that started due to injury, there's what, three established starters that were drafted outside of the first two rounds? Brady (6th), Wilson (3rd), and Cousins (4th)? Am I missing anyone? Glennon if he counts as "established" I guess?

Totally agree that early round busts are super common though.
 
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