• The KillerFrogs

Is SMU really a rival?

Frogcrates

Active Member
‘07

In football (or athletics in general)? Not really, though the coals are always burning and this weekend is a good reminder of that. I expect we’ll be bringing the hate to Dallas next year.

Now, as a university as a whole I would say absolutely. Toss in the Fort Worth vs dallas part into the mix and it adds a bit to the rivalry (as competing universities).

And then there is the rivalry of “talent” in the stands. And on that, we could find no stronger rival.
 

Realtorfrog

Full Member
For us no since it’s not important in the grand scheme but for them YES..... we are their “Super Bowl” and they prepare that way. It’s all predicated on our game for them.
 

Peacefrog

Degenerate
su·pe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
  1. an attitude of superiority which conceals actual feelings of inferiority and failure.
This is exactly why TCU shouldn’t give that worthless little program in Dallas anything. They win a 3rd game out of 18 against GP and act like this. SMU and it’s fan will never feel what it’s like to be in a big conference again and we shouldn’t be giving them any opportunities to experience what it feels like be in one.
 

Limp Lizard

Full Member
Yes and hell yes. TCU undergrad and grad 1965-1974. And whether or not some here don't think of SMU as a rival, they sure do. I guess kinda like the aggy and Texas this century. OU is the real rival of Texas. In the late 60's or early 70's when SMU had a baseball team TCU had the national leader in home runs who was just one short of the then national record, a double header at SMU's small, home run prone park...SMU intentionally walked him for both games, preventing his getting the record. In '84 when we had that good team, played @ SMU, highly-ranked TCU beat SMU 26-17, and afterwards the SMU players had nothing but derision for TCU. "Same old TCU" was one of many, ever worse comments. Not classy at all. And the list goes on and on.
 

One Frog Nation

Active Member
Yes and hell yes. TCU undergrad and grad 1965-1974. And whether or not some here don't think of SMU as a rival, they sure do. I guess kinda like the aggy and Texas this century. OU is the real rival of Texas. In the late 60's or early 70's when SMU had a baseball team TCU had the national leader in home runs who was just one short of the then national record, a double header at SMU's small, home run prone park...SMU intentionally walked him for both games, preventing his getting the record. In '84 when we had that good team, played @ SMU, highly-ranked TCU beat SMU 26-17, and afterwards the SMU players had nothing but derision for TCU. "Same old TCU" was one of many, ever worse comments. Not classy at all. And the list goes on and on.
Hey, I was at those games and remember that well. POS SMU was on that
 

Mean Purple

Active Member
Yes it is a rival. bu is sort of a rival, more of an annoyance. But SMU is a long standing rival. And one we all have no problem claiming after wins.
Just like Aggy is a rival for Texas, until Texas loses a game to them. Then it is OU only for them.
Translation: Never go full aggy.
 

Putt4Purple

Active Member
Please answer with yes or no, and also the years you attended TCU (or would have if you attended).

I suspect that the dividing line between the yes and no crowds will be whether they attended TCU before 2000 or after.

My answer: no and 2005-2009. Cant think of anyone my age off hand who thinks of SMU as a rival in the same way they see Baylor.

Just curious to see the replies.


1978-1982


I do consider SMU a rival. They hit hard times and almost disappeared and lost the program after the death penalty by thy NCAA. A lot of younger posters here don't remember the true rivalry that was built in the Southwest Conference days. I am glad GP has recognized that tradition. Unfortunately after a few more losses like this past Saturday a lot of you younger graduates and TCU faithful will despise the Mustangs like years before as well. Don't take success for granted just because they had been down for so long. TCU was down for a long span as well. Go Frogs!
 

HFrog12

Full Member
Yes and hell yes. TCU undergrad and grad 1965-1974. And whether or not some here don't think of SMU as a rival, they sure do. I guess kinda like the aggy and Texas this century. OU is the real rival of Texas. In the late 60's or early 70's when SMU had a baseball team TCU had the national leader in home runs who was just one short of the then national record, a double header at SMU's small, home run prone park...SMU intentionally walked him for both games, preventing his getting the record. In '84 when we had that good team, played @ SMU, highly-ranked TCU beat SMU 26-17, and afterwards the SMU players had nothing but derision for TCU. "Same old TCU" was one of many, ever worse comments. Not classy at all. And the list goes on and on.

Much respect to you and the Frog fans that paved the way during the hard times of TCU football. I would think for any graduate post 1990 (last 29 years) this game is just not a rivalry anymore. I respect old traditions and the old SWC but time has taken its toll on this game. Your point about SMU viewing it as a rival is the crux of the issue. It's so one-sided that there is zero benefit for us to play the game. I do not think we should drop the game cold turkey but this matchup is not at all the same as it was in the past. TCU had to crawl through the muck in multiple different conferences to get to where we are, and now we sit as a member of one of the best conferences in the country. There is no reason we should be depriving our fan base of a home game every other year and going to that pathetic excuse of a stadium on "the hilltop", or whatever they call it. I am fine with being called sour grapes but we are the only P5 school in the country that continues to play a group of 5 team at their stadium every other year. This series is too lopsided to be considered a rivalry anymore. People in the office asked me who we were playing and I respond with SMU and they say, "oh well that should be a cakewalk." What every other fanbase in the nation doesn't realize is that we are SMU's superbowl. On the flipside the majority of TCU fans could care less about the game because we are expected to win.

There is a reason LSU cancelled their series with Tulane back in the late 90s, because their administration had the foresight to realize that the game did nothing for their program. It did not generate any revenue or elevate their program in any way. Instead Tulane would play within an average of two scores of LSU during some of LSU's best years and occasionally pull the upset. Texas and LSU are coming to Houston to play Rice, but they wouldn't dare play at Rice stadium, it's at reliant. Playing at SMU every other year is so small-time when we are in the midst of finally trying to break through as a big time program in a power conference.

I have mad respect for the old guard of TCU who have seen us through thick and thin. But the old guard that has to pull back on comments in the 70s, when SMU had a baseball team, are the only group that view this as a rivalry. There is no angst towards SMU like there was in the SWC days. Only annoyance that we have to drive to their stadium every other year and watch them pop bottles and spray confetti all over the field. Whether we win or lose it only drags our program down.

Let SMU navigate the college football landscape like we did and come back to us when they can actually bring some value to the game.
 
Class of 92, and Yes, SMU is a rival.

Similar location, similar religious affiliation, similar size, similar historical record. For all of you citing the lopsided record the past couple of decades, they sported a similar lopsided record against us in the 70s and early 80s. 15 straight wins for them against us from 1972 to 1986.
 

HFrog12

Full Member
1978-1982


I do consider SMU a rival. They hit hard times and almost disappeared and lost the program after the death penalty by thy NCAA. A lot of younger posters here don't remember the true rivalry that was built in the Southwest Conference days. I am glad GP has recognized that tradition. Unfortunately after a few more losses like this past Saturday a lot of you younger graduates and TCU faithful will despise the Mustangs like years before as well. Don't take success for granted just because they had been down for so long. TCU was down for a long span as well. Go Frogs!

You are right - TCU was down for a long time but we have earned where we are now. SMU played us when we were down because they had to, it was a conference game. I wouldn't mind SMU getting back to a P5 league and making this an actual rivalry again, when they are consistently competitive. Yes a few more losses would put more salt in my mouth and fans will despise them more and more. But that still doesn't change the fact that the game provides zero value to our program. As you can probably tell, I am a younger graduate and I still despise SMU just because of everything they stand for and the history that we have with them. But that doesn't mean I view the game as a rivalry today. Every other year you give up a home game for your own fans, an opportunity to visit a different destination, or the ability play an opponent that rewards you when you beat them. To belabor the point, we are probably the only P5 school that plays at a Group of 5 school every other year. Why is that?

You can still recognize a historical rival but not continue to play the game. Texas and Texas A&M are rivals. Penn St. and Pitt just discontinued their series. If you look at all the great rivalries in college football today there is one constant. They all compete on the same level in comparative conferences. It saddens me that SMU has fallen so far back. But for us to keep moving forward we need to graduate from playing down to this game every year and find something with greater value.
 
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WhatTheFrog

Active Member
1. Here's the deal, we have to beat SMU. If it doesn't matter, then this past Sat doesn't mean anything and we can win a NC. Does anyone here believe this? I think not.

2. Why have an "Iron Skillet Trophy" if this matchup doesn't mean anything? I don't see a "West Texas Dirt Pie" trophy with TTU or a "Gay Unicorn Rainbow-colored" [ Finebaum ] trophy with UT, or a "Eff this, I'll let the Native Americans fight this one on my behalf" trophy for OU or OSU.
 

Chongo94

Active Member
1. Here's the deal, we have to beat SMU. If it doesn't matter, then this past Sat doesn't mean anything and we can win a NC. Does anyone here believe this? I think not.

2. Why have an "Iron Skillet Trophy" if this matchup doesn't mean anything? I don't see a "West Texas Dirt Pie" trophy with TTU or a "Gay Unicorn Rainbow-colored" [ Orgeron ] trophy with UT, or a "Eff this, I'll let the Native Americans fight this one on my behalf" trophy for OU or OSU.

Because it started in the 40s/50s like all these other historically nebulous trophies that schools have? It’s been around forever, that doesn’t mean it’s viewed as importantly as it once was.

And I might add there was indeed a trophy between TCU and Tech but it has since been lost to history. There is talk of restarting it again, however.
 

WhatTheFrog

Active Member
Because it started in the 40s/50s like all these other historically nebulous trophies that schools have? It’s been around forever, that doesn’t mean it’s viewed as importantly as it once was.

And I might add there was indeed a trophy between TCU and Tech but it has since been lost to history. There is talk of restarting it again, however.
Why discount it now? Because it doesn't benefit US anymore? What if the wheels were turned and we were in their shoes? Would we not want to beat the crap out of them if they were in our position and we were in theirs? What importance would we put in that trophy if the tables were turned?
 

Chongo94

Active Member
Why discount it now? Because it doesn't benefit US anymore? What if the wheels were turned and we were in their shoes? Would we not want to beat the crap out of them if they were in our position and we were in theirs? What importance would we put in that trophy if the tables were turned?

I mean, personally, I wouldn’t care one bit. Never really understood and valued these in season rivalry trophies. I only care about conference championship trophies and/or bowl trophies.

Can’t speak for others though.
 

Putt4Purple

Active Member
You are right - TCU was down for a long time but we have earned where we are now. SMU played us when we were down because they had to, it was a conference game. I wouldn't mind SMU getting back to a P5 league and making this an actual rivalry again, when they are consistently competitive. Yes a few more losses would put more salt in my mouth and fans will despise them more and more. But that still doesn't change the fact that the game provides zero value to our program. As you can probably tell, I am a younger graduate and I still despise SMU just because of everything they stand for and the history that we have with them. But that doesn't mean I view the game as a rivalry today. Every other year you give up a home game for your own fans, an opportunity to visit a different destination, or the ability play an opponent that rewards you when you beat them. To belabor the point, we are probably the only P5 school that plays at a Group of 5 school every other year. Why is that?

You can still recognize a historical rival but not continue to play the game. Texas and Texas A&M are rivals. Penn St. and Pitt just discontinued their series. If you look at all the great rivalries in college football today there is one constant. They all compete on the same level in comparative conferences. It saddens me that SMU has fallen so far back. But for us to keep moving forward we need to graduate from playing down to this game every year and find something with greater value.

With all due respect your reply reminds me of Baylor, T.Tech, U.T., A&M fans when we were dispatched to the nether regions of NCAA football.
I understand your thoughts on no real return value for our playing certain teams but that arrogance does not serve well for our University or our community. Playing SMU serves a purpose for tradition and showing respect and class to all NCAA programs. Yes TCU fought through all the unfair treatment but don't doubt for a second it was because they thought it was an unfair value. They respected us enough to play us! We should not be snobbish and refuse to play any team.
 

WhatTheFrog

Active Member
I mean, personally, I wouldn’t care one bit. Never really understood and valued these in season rivalry trophies. I only care about conference championship trophies and/or bowl trophies.
Maybe I'm old school and I grew up here in FW back since the late 70's and I understand the metroplex hate between the two schools. Maybe that doesn't mean anything anymore, I don't really know. What I DO know is, SMU and TCU absolutely HATED each other back in the day. Baylol had no place in anything at any time at the time. It was a metroplex battle for who would get the attention. People started cheating (SMU, primarily) and things blew up. Basically everyone got busted, but SMU got truly hammered with the death penalty and the state schools got off scot-free. A lot of stuff happened after that and the SWC broke up. The end.
 
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