• The KillerFrogs

Winners and Losers In The Realignment Wars

Atomic Frawg

Full Member
Okay... this was 8 years ago and an opinion piece? Not sure how this is relevant?

This. vvvv The same premises set forth are still viable today, if not more so. TCU has shown it has the mettle to compete, and it does so, still, with recruits who have fewer starsies. But more so than that, it's real estate. That means location, location, location. DFW is the largest market in the state, and a top five market nationally. Having the SEC in DFW would bolster their TV contracts and give them access to the two hottest recruiting areas in the state - Houston and DFW. There is a reason the SEC tries to play as many games in JerryWorld as possible. They want a presence here. We are that presence. If your school isn't named Oklahoma or Texas, you'd better hope it's named TCU because no new realignment is going to want to walk away from this market. That would be insanity.

did you read it?

two lines really stand out to me.

1) "No, TCU hasn’t drawn huge crowds, but when you’re playing New Mexico in a pro market, that’ll happen. Get Auburn on campus and it’s a sellout. And if they need more seats, well, glorious, 100,000-capacity Cowboys Stadium is just a few miles away."

are you scheissing kidding me?

2) "As far as television, the best that can be said is TCU doesn’t hurt in the Dallas market. It doesn’t help much at this point either. The Cowboys rule and a half dozen other schools have far, far more impact. That isn’t likely to change.

It also doesn’t matter. The TV money will be huge no matter what."

curious if lsu or atm are on tv at the same time tcu is playing who draws the bigger ratings in the metroplex?
 
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This. vvvv The same premises set forth are still viable today, if not more so. TCU has shown it has the mettle to compete, and it does so, still, with recruits who have fewer starsies. But more so than that, it's real estate. That means location, location, location. DFW is the largest market in the state, and a top five market nationally. Having the SEC in DFW would bolster their TV contracts and give them access to the two hottest recruiting areas in the state - Houston and DFW. There is a reason the SEC tries to play as many games in JerryWorld as possible. They want a presence here. We are that presence. If your school isn't named Oklahoma or Texas, you'd better hope it's named TCU because no new realignment is going to want to walk away from this market. That would be insanity.

Hahahaha. I love TCU but no team in the Big 12 is going to the SEC but maybe OU if the Big 12 broke apart. Texas A&M would never allow another Texas team to join the SEC. Period. I'm 100% right on this. End of the SEC discussion.
Plus, SEC really doesn't need anyone. And SEC never doubles up on a state that didn't already start as a founding member. Now with Pac, ACC, or Big 10 there might be something to it. Hopefully Big 12 stays around for a long time with OU and UT as members.
 

Atomic Frawg

Full Member
Hahahaha. I love TCU but no team in the Big 12 is going to the SEC but maybe OU if the Big 12 broke apart. Texas A&M would never allow another Texas team to join the SEC. Period. I'm 100% right on this. End of the SEC discussion.
Plus, SEC really doesn't need anyone. And SEC never doubles up on a state that didn't already start as a founding member. Now with Pac, ACC, or Big 10 there might be something to it. Hopefully Big 12 stays around for a long time with OU and UT as members.
Sorry, I seemed to have missed the memo about Aggie running the SEC. Could you please provide a link? TIA

BTW, I am not advocating for a move to the SEC. I believe the notion of its impossibility by some of you is flat out wrong.
 
Sorry, I seemed to have missed the memo about Aggie running the SEC. Could you please provide a link? TIA

BTW, I am not advocating for a move to the SEC. I believe the notion of its impossibility by some of you is flat out wrong.
Sorry, I seemed to have missed the memo about Aggie running the SEC. Could you please provide a link? TIA

BTW, I am not advocating for a move to the SEC. I believe the notion of its impossibility by some of you is flat out wrong.

Its possible I guess in theory.
*3.1.2 Granting of Membership. Membership may be granted by invitation of the Conference at a meeting of the Chief Executive Officers. A vote of at least three-fourths of the members is required to extend an invitation for membership.
Download the bylaws: https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/07...Vaw3lNr_MnwLN9CNIvNc9XjQ5&cshid=1561986073800

But this is why it won't happen.
This is a great article of why:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/...-to-block-texas-from-ever-joining-sec-072915/
 

Atomic Frawg

Full Member
Its possible I guess in theory.
*3.1.2 Granting of Membership. Membership may be granted by invitation of the Conference at a meeting of the Chief Executive Officers. A vote of at least three-fourths of the members is required to extend an invitation for membership.
Download the bylaws: https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0721/FINAL%20Bylaws%207.18.14.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjrxNyf4pPjAhWGXc0KHajdCGoQFjALegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3lNr_MnwLN9CNIvNc9XjQ5&cshid=1561986073800

But this is why it won't happen.
This is a great article of why:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/...-to-block-texas-from-ever-joining-sec-072915/

I figured that article is what you were referencing, and, as you know, it is conjecture. The reason Aggie got an invite is moreso because of the Houston market and access to Texas recruiting and less because they are Aggie. If Aggie was located in Odessa or El Paso they would still be in the Big 12. Houston's market mean's cable money, and cheddar makes things better. DFW is a top five national market, and there is one P5 team represented here (although Techtards outnumber us). If TCU were in the SEC it would cripple the Big 12, or what would've been the Big 12. That's why we got the invite from the Big 12. Had the SEC been in DFW and Houston, all other state schools including Oklahoma would've been struggling to get/retain Texas recruits, and we and other SEC schools would have greater access to them. It's our real estate that makes us so valuable...no knock on Coach P. It's the money. Nevertheless, this is all about what if speculation, so I'll just sit back and enjoy our Big 12 run as long as it lasts and see what happens when/if it happens. But we have more value than folk realize imo. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just following the money.
 
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I figured that article is what you were referencing, and, as you know, it is conjecture. The reason Aggie got an invite is moreso because of the Houston market and access to Texas recruiting and less because they are Aggie. If Aggie was located in Odessa or El Paso they would still be in the Big 12. Houston's market mean's cable money, and cheddar makes things better. DFW is a top five national market, and there is one P5 team represented here (although Techtards outnumber us). If TCU were in the SEC it would cripple the Big 12, or what would've been the Big 12. That's why we got the invite from the Big 12. Had the SEC been in DFW and Houston, all other state schools including Oklahoma would've been struggling to get/retain Texas recruits, and we and other SEC schools would have greater access to them. It's our real estate that makes us so valuable...no knock on Coach P. It's the money. Nevertheless, this is all about what if speculation, so I'll just sit back and enjoy our Big 12 run as long as it lasts and see what happens when/if it happens. But we have more value than folk realize imo. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just following the money.

It's not the article for all they reasons why, but you wanted links so really that is the only article that talks about it in some way. If TCU is serious of making an SEC run in the future they better start making very strong relationships with A&M, Missouri, Arkansas and all the SEC admin and boosters. At the same time making great connections in the other conferences, just in case. Location is a very small part in which we saw when the SWC broke up and Big 12 left TCU and SMU behind. We have to learn the lessons of the past and we have in a lot of ways with commitment, but so has the others.
 

Big Frog II

Active Member
It's not the article for all they reasons why, but you wanted links so really that is the only article that talks about it in some way. If TCU is serious of making an SEC run in the future they better start making very strong relationships with A&M, Missouri, Arkansas and all the SEC admin and boosters. At the same time making great connections in the other conferences, just in case. Location is a very small part in which we saw when the SWC broke up and Big 12 left TCU and SMU behind. We have to learn the lessons of the past and we have in a lot of ways with commitment, but so has the others.
Location had nothing to do with the Big 12 back then, only politics.
 

Ron Swanson

Full Member
I figured that article is what you were referencing, and, as you know, it is conjecture. The reason Aggie got an invite is moreso because of the Houston market and access to Texas recruiting and less because they are Aggie. If Aggie was located in Odessa or El Paso they would still be in the Big 12. Houston's market mean's cable money, and cheddar makes things better. DFW is a top five national market, and there is one P5 team represented here (although Techtards outnumber us). If TCU were in the SEC it would cripple the Big 12, or what would've been the Big 12. That's why we got the invite from the Big 12. Had the SEC been in DFW and Houston, all other state schools including Oklahoma would've been struggling to get/retain Texas recruits, and we and other SEC schools would have greater access to them. It's our real estate that makes us so valuable...no knock on Coach P. It's the money. Nevertheless, this is all about what if speculation, so I'll just sit back and enjoy our Big 12 run as long as it lasts and see what happens when/if it happens. But we have more value than folk realize imo. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just following the money.
I would say the decision to add A&M was more....

A. Texas-driven than Houston-driven

and

B. The fact that A&M has one of the biggest and most rabid fan bases in the country
 

Eight

Member
Tech did not break 3M three times.

TCU garners more media notice in Houston and Austin/SA than Tech does.

Texas Tech Football has never had any national success. All Tech has ever done is keep chipping away at the successful programs in the state.

you are right, i miss read the numbers and am wrong, but if you think tcu gets more media notice in houston than tech you are wrong.

kingsbury has been fairly regular on the radio up until his firing and i can't tell you the last time i heard gary down hear.

houston is first and foremost an nfl town and when it comes to talk about college football it is atm, texas, mix of lsu, and then whomever is doing well nationally.
 

Eight

Member
According to https://www.statista.com/statistics/748033/college-football-tv-ratings/

Tech only broke 3 mil once last year.

Day, game (conference) (network) Rating Viewers
September 29, 2018 West Virginia vs. Texas Tech (B12) (ESPN2) 0.7 1,147,000
September 22, 2018 Texas Tech vs Oklahoma State (B12) (FS1) 0.51 868,000
September 15, 2018 Houston vs. Texas Tech (AAC, B12) (FOX) 0.7 1,079,000
September 1, 2018 Ole Miss vs. Texas Tech (SEC, B12) (ESPN) 1.2 1,929,000
October 27, 2018 Texas Tech vs. Iowa State (B12) (ESPN2) 0.55 885,000
October 20, 2018 Kansas vs. Texas Tech (B12) (FS1) 0.3 472,000
October 11, 2018 Texas Tech vs. Texas Christian (B12) (ESPN) 0.8 1,233,000
November 3, 2018 Oklahoma vs. Texas Tech (B12) (ABC) 1.9 3,135,000
November 24, 2018 Baylor vs. Texas Tech (B12) (FS1) 0.21 333,000
November 10, 2018 Texas vs. Texas Tech (B12) (FOX) 1.6 2,679,000

Total through 10 games (site didn’t provide the K. St game stats) 13,760,000

TCU

Day, game (conference) (network) Rating Viewers
September 7, 2018 Texas Christian vs. Southern Methodist (B12, AAC) (ESPN2) 0.7 1,076,000
September 15, 2018 Ohio State vs. Texas Christian (B1G, B12) (ABC) 4.2 7,328,000
September 22, 2018 Texas Christian vs. Texas (B12) (FOX) 1.7 2,887,000
September 29, 2018 Iowa State vs. Texas Christian (B1G) (ESPNU) - 366,000
October 11, 2018 Texas Tech vs. Texas Christian (B12) (ESPN) 0.8 1,233,000
October 20, 2018 Oklahoma vs. Texas Christian (B12) (ABC) 1.7 2,488,000
October 27, 2018 Texas Christian vs. Kansas (B12) (FS1) 0.19 325,000
November 3, 2018 Kansas State vs. Texas Christian (B12) (FS1) 0.24 477,000
November 10, 2018 Texas Christian vs. West Virginia (B12) (FS1) 0.39 728,000
November 17, 2018 Texas Christian vs. Baylor (B12) (FS1) 0.23 405,000
November 24, 2018 Oklahoma State vs. Texas Christian (B12) (FOX) 1 1,615,000

Total through 11 games. 18,928,000

If you add in the bowl game
December 26, 2018 Texas Christian vs Cal (Cactus) (ESPN) 1.6 2,700,000

Total 21,628,000

Both teams had six 1 Mil + games

Seems like both teams really have roughly similar viewership ratings.

thanks for doing the math and it shows that outside the outlier of the ohio state game tcu and tech drew about the same number of eyeballs.
 

Eight

Member
This. vvvv The same premises set forth are still viable today, if not more so. TCU has shown it has the mettle to compete, and it does so, still, with recruits who have fewer starsies. But more so than that, it's real estate. That means location, location, location. DFW is the largest market in the state, and a top five market nationally. Having the SEC in DFW would bolster their TV contracts and give them access to the two hottest recruiting areas in the state - Houston and DFW. There is a reason the SEC tries to play as many games in JerryWorld as possible. They want a presence here. We are that presence. If your school isn't named Oklahoma or Texas, you'd better hope it's named TCU because no new realignment is going to want to walk away from this market. That would be insanity.

curious, would dan think it is a good idea for vandy to host their home games at the titans stadium simply to sell tickets and ruin any home field advantage or campus atmosphere?

second, attendence has been an issue regardless of it being new mexico or kanas or whomever it is that ins't texas or ou.

finally, i haven't seen anyone answer the question i asked before and that is if an sec game is running concurrently with a tcu game in the metroplex who in the past has pulled the higher ratings?

i agree with ron that the sec as already established in houston before the ags made the move and when they brought atm into the conference they brought the state and not just the area.
 

Frogenstein

Full Member
you are right, i miss read the numbers and am wrong, but if you think tcu gets more media notice in houston than tech you are wrong.

kingsbury has been fairly regular on the radio up until his firing and i can't tell you the last time i heard gary down hear.

houston is first and foremost an nfl town and when it comes to talk about college football it is atm, texas, mix of lsu, and then whomever is doing well nationally.
Could Kingsbury’s being fairly regular on Houston radio have anything to do with his establishing relationships with radio personalities while coaching at UH and A&M?
 

Hell Sent Frog

Active Member
The Pac-12 Conference would most likely be the other Power 5 league that would be the most attracted to big city TCU.
All you have to do is look at TCU's future non-conference schedules and you see the Horned Frogs playing a number of Pac-12 schools. Both sides perhaps laying the groundwork, just in case?

Fort Worth is where the West begins. Recent history says TCU Football has had a lot of success out West.
The 8 Million Metroplex media market, now the fourth biggest in the nation and ever growing, would give that conference and the Pac Network a substantial lift.

Would TCU really care that the Pac-12 has a smaller payout than the Big Ten, SEC or the ACC? The answer is no.
Also, the Pac-12 would probably be more open to adding another private school to compliment USC and Stanford and those two big city private schools' success.

A marriage made in Heaven? The Pac-12 would positively have the best looking cheerleaders in the country after that wedding. Bring on realignment?
 
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Eight

Member
Could Kingsbury’s being fairly regular on Houston radio have anything to do with his establishing relationships with radio personalities while coaching at UH and A&M?

the number of different stations very much was driven by his relationships in the market., but each time i heard him on the radio he was talking about tech football and not remembering his days back at uh or atm.

additionally, tech's football games, men's basketball games, and coaches shows for those sports are broadcast in the houston area and i actually think baylor football games are broadcast in the houston area, but could be wrong on that.
 

Hell Sent Frog

Active Member
thanks for doing the math and it shows that outside the outlier of the ohio state game tcu and tech drew about the same number of eyeballs.

Tech had a outlier game with the SEC's very own Ole Miss as well. The Rebels had their own recent head coaching issues at the time too.

TCU Football is the #3 national media darling of the Big 12.
More evidence, it was the networks who decided that TCU was a reasonable Big 12 replacement for a$m.
 
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Eight

Member
Tech had a outlier game with the SEC's very own Ole Miss as well. The Rebels had their own head coaching issues at the time too.

TCU Football is the #3 national media darling of the Big 12.
More evidence, it was the networks who decided that TCU was a reasonable Big 12 replacement for a$m.

do you ever provide any evidence or do you just spout [ Finebaum ].

example, you said tech gets no mention in the houston area and here am i providing you with the link announcing a 5-year deal beginning in 2018 for 100.7 in houston to broadcst tech football, men's basketball, and coaches shows.

https://texastech.com/news/2018/8/1...-houston-joins-texas-tech-sports-network.aspx

since you told me tcu gets more attention in houston than tech please let me know which station in houston broadcast the frogs games because i have been looking for 20 years and haven't found it.

if tcu is the #3 national media darling of the big 12 you would think the total number of eyes last year wold have the frogs easily as the third most watched team in the conference and there is a team that drew similar ratings numbers last year and i am not talking about tech.

the one thing i am certain about being a tcu alum and having gone through being left for dead when the swc broke up is the only thing certain is no one will be looking out for us and when we start thinking we have it safe get ready to get screwed over.
 
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