• The KillerFrogs

TCU Basketball @ Western Virginia Game thread

Dogfrog

Active Member
Well, that is a shame. Really, needed Vlad to step up for us those last several minutes. He needed to fight harder for the low block and he needs to not be passing the ball off when he receives it on the high elbow. He has to know that he is our best option and needs to push the offensive issue (go Bird/Magic/Jordan mode) rather than passing it off to the wings or a cutter and risking a turnover. On the defensive end, he did not switch on a couple of players when there was time for him to get back to the bigger player after a swtich and the WV bigman was giving him trouble despite being less coordinated. Maybe he just didn't have the legs tonight but without his offense down the stretch, any chance we had went up in smoke. On the positive side, I will say he did do a better job for showing patience inside on several plays throughout the game but down the stretch they were able to get position on him too easily and move him out of the lane down the stretch.

This is a game where we missed that extra player to give us a little more energy. We had a couple of chances to tighten things up but just couldn't take advantage. For example, with WV within 5 points, Robinson made a poor decision firing up a three early in the shot clock where we should have tried to get it inside or find a 3 in rotation. We needed him to make the heady play in that situation. And then later we had another chance when Bain missed a wide open 3 that would have cut the lead to 6. But even if we had made those plays, we still would have needed WV to come unglued and miss some shots.

Looking forward, the next few games should all be winnable ball games with 3 of the next 4 at home and then we can really see where the team is with the rematch against Tech in Lubbock. TCU still has a chance for tournament play so there is a lot to play for. I would imagine we will get Bolden back as well and the crowd will give the team some extra energy too.

Olden
 

HornedFrog4Life

Active Member
Question. Hamdy in my opinion has declined in his play in conference and his last few games his minutes have been limited.

It’s too late in the year, but any reason we did not pull Samuel’s redshirt at start of the year. Seems like his size and supposed post presence on defense would be welcomed? Thoughts?

With us over on scholly’s for next year, is RJ gone? Or do we lose one of the big kids like Barlow?
 

ThisIsOurTime

Active Member
Question. Hamdy in my opinion has declined in his play in conference and his last few games his minutes have been limited.

It’s too late in the year, but any reason we did not pull Samuel’s redshirt at start of the year. Seems like his size and supposed post presence on defense would be welcomed? Thoughts?
I have to assume the coaches don't think he is ready. Plus, they may be thinking the risk reward ratio is simply better for him to redshirt for future teams. They staggering of talent with their recruiting prowess may mean it is worth it to keep the redshirt especially now as we enter late into the season.

At the end of the day, the coaches will have seen him perform in practice and know what he can and can't do. My experience is that usually coaches make the right decisions on these things more often than not. But I will speculate if we had a hot shot freshman guard redshirting, I suspect we would have pulled his redshirt at some point this season.
 
Just about every turnover I watched us commit should have been a foul on WV. How long ago were they exempted from playing by the same rules as everyone else? I don't really know what it is, but it's not basketball. The amount of contact they get away with is more comparable to hand-to-hand combat.
 

Mountaineerlegion

Active Member
Just about every turnover I watched us commit should have been a foul on WV. How long ago were they exempted from playing by the same rules as everyone else? I don't really know what it is, but it's not basketball. The amount of contact they get away with is more comparable to hand-to-hand combat.

Obviously every single ref who's ever called a WVU game is in the bag for us. Congrats to your guys for playing a nearly perfect turnover free game but for our fouls that the NCAA and Big 12 leadership ordered the refs not call because they too are in the bag for us. That's got to be it.
 
Last edited:

ReedFrawg

Full Member
Just about every turnover I watched us commit should have been a foul on WV. How long ago were they exempted from playing by the same rules as everyone else? I don't really know what it is, but it's not basketball. The amount of contact they get away with is more comparable to hand-to-hand combat.

Well Oklahoma State managed to deal with it just fine.
 

satis1103

DAOTONPYH EHT LIAH LLA
Obviously every single ref who's ever called a WVU game is in the bag for us. Congrats to your guys for playing a nearly perfect turnover free game but for our fouls that the NCAA and Big 12 leadership ordered the refs not call because they too are in the bag for us. That's got to be it.
Hold up. That's [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ].

It is objective that games that include a press/trap heavy defense (or two) are officiated differently - and that does work both ways - I know the WVU home crowd was annoyed at some no calls yesterday. In less physical matchups, things are called fouls which are not fouls in a game like last night. This is something that I feel cannot be argued.

What we CAN do though is have an intellectually honest discussion about whether it is ok for it to be this way. I think it is personally. I hate touch fouls. I say "let em play" far more often than "where's the foul?"

Discussing the merits of this phenomenon is fine. Denying the phenomenon even exists is ridiculous.
 

Mountaineerlegion

Active Member
Hold up. That's [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ].

It is objective that games that include a press/trap heavy defense (or two) are officiated differently - and that does work both ways - I know the WVU home crowd was annoyed at some no calls yesterday. In less physical matchups, things are called fouls which are not fouls in a game like last night. This is something that I feel cannot be argued.

What we CAN do though is have an intellectually honest discussion about whether it is ok for it to be this way. I think it is personally. I hate touch fouls. I say "let em play" far more often than "where's the foul?"

Discussing the merits of this phenomenon is fine. Denying the phenomenon even exists is ridiculous.

satis1103,

Most of what you said I agree with completely. Your second, and third paragraphs and first sentence of your last paragraph seem indisputable. As for calling my post bull droppings and claiming I'm denying the phenomenon, I think you failed to take my post in context.

My issue with his post is it's exactly the opposite of the phenomenon you accurately described.

Bonner4Prez said, "Just about every turnover I watched us commit should have been a foul on WV." We turnover opponents 17.8 times per game, good for #3 in the country. You all though would have had one or two turnovers for the entire game but for our cheating and the refs letting us get away with it. That seems unequivocal and doesn't seem to leave room for nuances in officiating

Bonner4Prez said, "How long ago were they exempted from playing by the same rules as everyone else?" He's clearly stating we violate the rules but get away with it and have for some time. He didn't say the refs called the game tight or loose as in the phenomenon you described. Additionally, since it's been going on for some time there must have been numerous officiating crews who allow us to violate the rules. Thus my conspiracy sarcasm.

I'll gladly have an intellectually honest discussion. I was a small time college baseball pitcher. Every home plate umpire called the strike zone differently. I had an umpire who was giving me a little extra plate low and away. I lived there, used it all day. Conversely, one day I was complaining to my catcher about an umpire who was really squeezing me. My 150yr old coach came over and told me if I wanted I could head back to the lockers to see if I could find the umpire I wanted or I could quit complaining and do whatever it took to get guys out. Was I cheating in the first case? Obviously not, you play to the limits of what the refs will give you. When the refs aren't calling as you would like...suck it up buttercup.

As an aside, with all the whining from our new conference mates about how physical we are, you all would not have liked the BE when we were there.

Thoughts?
 

Casey T

Full Member
satis1103,

Most of what you said I agree with completely. Your second, and third paragraphs and first sentence of your last paragraph seem indisputable. As for calling my post bull droppings and claiming I'm denying the phenomenon, I think you failed to take my post in context.

My issue with his post is it's exactly the opposite of the phenomenon you accurately described.

Bonner4Prez said, "Just about every turnover I watched us commit should have been a foul on WV." We turnover opponents 17.8 times per game, good for #3 in the country. You all though would have had one or two turnovers for the entire game but for our cheating and the refs letting us get away with it. That seems unequivocal and doesn't seem to leave room for nuances in officiating

Bonner4Prez said, "How long ago were they exempted from playing by the same rules as everyone else?" He's clearly stating we violate the rules but get away with it and have for some time. He didn't say the refs called the game tight or loose as in the phenomenon you described. Additionally, since it's been going on for some time there must have been numerous officiating crews who allow us to violate the rules. Thus my conspiracy sarcasm.

I'll gladly have an intellectually honest discussion. I was a small time college baseball pitcher. Every home plate umpire called the strike zone differently. I had an umpire who was giving me a little extra plate low and away. I lived there, used it all day. Conversely, one day I was complaining to my catcher about an umpire who was really squeezing me. My 150yr old coach came over and told me if I wanted I could head back to the lockers to see if I could find the umpire I wanted or I could quit complaining and do whatever it took to get guys out. Was I cheating in the first case? Obviously not, you play to the limits of what the refs will give you. When the refs aren't calling as you would like...suck it up buttercup.

As an aside, with all the whining from our new conference mates about how physical we are, you all would not have liked the BE when we were there.

Thoughts?

TLDR
 

Chongo94

Active Member
satis1103,

Most of what you said I agree with completely. Your second, and third paragraphs and first sentence of your last paragraph seem indisputable. As for calling my post bull droppings and claiming I'm denying the phenomenon, I think you failed to take my post in context.

My issue with his post is it's exactly the opposite of the phenomenon you accurately described.

Bonner4Prez said, "Just about every turnover I watched us commit should have been a foul on WV." We turnover opponents 17.8 times per game, good for #3 in the country. You all though would have had one or two turnovers for the entire game but for our cheating and the refs letting us get away with it. That seems unequivocal and doesn't seem to leave room for nuances in officiating

Bonner4Prez said, "How long ago were they exempted from playing by the same rules as everyone else?" He's clearly stating we violate the rules but get away with it and have for some time. He didn't say the refs called the game tight or loose as in the phenomenon you described. Additionally, since it's been going on for some time there must have been numerous officiating crews who allow us to violate the rules. Thus my conspiracy sarcasm.

I'll gladly have an intellectually honest discussion. I was a small time college baseball pitcher. Every home plate umpire called the strike zone differently. I had an umpire who was giving me a little extra plate low and away. I lived there, used it all day. Conversely, one day I was complaining to my catcher about an umpire who was really squeezing me. My 150yr old coach came over and told me if I wanted I could head back to the lockers to see if I could find the umpire I wanted or I could quit complaining and do whatever it took to get guys out. Was I cheating in the first case? Obviously not, you play to the limits of what the refs will give you. When the refs aren't calling as you would like...suck it up buttercup.

As an aside, with all the whining from our new conference mates about how physical we are, you all would not have liked the BE when we were there.

Thoughts?

I took your post as an attempt at sarcasm or humor but that's just me, maybe I missed something.
 

MTfrog5

Active Member
If we shoot like we had been shooting that game is a lot closer. If Miller isn’t called for a bogus offensive foul we are only down 5 with 3 minutes left. If we have Olden at the least we have a better chance not to get gassed. We didn’t play well. Having 7 players for the 2nd game in three days wasn’t ideal
 

satis1103

DAOTONPYH EHT LIAH LLA
satis1103,

Most of what you said I agree with completely. Your second, and third paragraphs and first sentence of your last paragraph seem indisputable. As for calling my post bull droppings and claiming I'm denying the phenomenon, I think you failed to take my post in context.

My issue with his post is it's exactly the opposite of the phenomenon you accurately described.

Bonner4Prez said, "Just about every turnover I watched us commit should have been a foul on WV." We turnover opponents 17.8 times per game, good for #3 in the country. You all though would have had one or two turnovers for the entire game but for our cheating and the refs letting us get away with it. That seems unequivocal and doesn't seem to leave room for nuances in officiating

Bonner4Prez said, "How long ago were they exempted from playing by the same rules as everyone else?" He's clearly stating we violate the rules but get away with it and have for some time. He didn't say the refs called the game tight or loose as in the phenomenon you described. Additionally, since it's been going on for some time there must have been numerous officiating crews who allow us to violate the rules. Thus my conspiracy sarcasm.

I'll gladly have an intellectually honest discussion. I was a small time college baseball pitcher. Every home plate umpire called the strike zone differently. I had an umpire who was giving me a little extra plate low and away. I lived there, used it all day. Conversely, one day I was complaining to my catcher about an umpire who was really squeezing me. My 150yr old coach came over and told me if I wanted I could head back to the lockers to see if I could find the umpire I wanted or I could quit complaining and do whatever it took to get guys out. Was I cheating in the first case? Obviously not, you play to the limits of what the refs will give you. When the refs aren't calling as you would like...suck it up buttercup.

As an aside, with all the whining from our new conference mates about how physical we are, you all would not have liked the BE when we were there.

Thoughts?
I think we don't disagree on most points.

I don't like the whining myself either. My preference would be that TCU sucks it up, adjusts to the game and plays a helluva lot more physical in response. We and any other Mountaineer opponent can get away with a lot more contact busting through traps, or grabbing the ball away on D in a game like that. That's not limited to players wearing a WVU jersey.

The only thing I don't see the need to waste time arguing is whether some of the contact described fits the definition of a foul. In many cases it does - letter of the law - which is not always the most practical perspective. And it's fine if it's a no call in this game, understandable. But we've also watched our team get torched by the likes of Trae Young and we've seen the phantom fouls that get called when you're against skill guys like that. As a fan, it's frustrating to have to bounce back and forth between expectations of officiating.
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
WVU presents a tough challenge for officials. If WV is playing their aggressive full court press for 40 minutes and the opponent is not, WV should average committing double the fouls of the opponent assuming officials are calling it exactly the same both ways. Problem is they don’t because in Morgantown they would not get out of town alive if they foul out the starting 5 in the first half. In the FW game WV committed 10 more fouls than TCU. In Morgantown they committed 2 more.

I’m not complaining, just pointing out that officials choose to moderate their rate of foul calling with pressing teams. It is an advantage pressing teams have always enjoyed and part of coaching strategy.
 
Top