Bonner4Prez
KMA
Gotta love when the minority shows up and and makes it sound like I'm crazy. Most people would agree (and did) that is was a bad spot.
Zebra Frog please help: Terrible Spot on Carter catch at end of 1st Half
- Thread starter Bonner4Prez
- Start date
Frogs On A Plane
Ticket Exchange Pass
LOL. Most people didn't agree. If was a judgment call and one that could have gone either way. It happens 20 times a game. The fact that you took the time out to take it from the TV to your computer, upload it to youtube, and then post it on here is incredible. It was a call that could have gone either way, not TERRIBLE by any means.
Bonner4Prez
KMA
Most people in the chat said it was bad. People here said it was bad. People AT the game said it was bad.
Bonner4Prez
KMA
Yeah but if any of you bothered to read the rulebook it should be pretty obvious. Danger even posted it
​He was forced back, but he never tried to run. NO RUNNING EVER OCCURRED.
​He was forced back, but he never tried to run. NO RUNNING EVER OCCURRED.
DangerFrog
Member
That was more in regards to Boyce. The Carder one was a good call. He caught the ball short of the first down line and was tackled before he could get the first down. Remember, there is no catch until he has control with a foot inbounds.
Frogs On A Plane
Ticket Exchange Pass
I still don't see the big deal. Bonner, pause it when contact is first made. Carter looks to be right on or half a yard behind the marker. Was it a first down? Might have been. Not even close to being a terrible call and drawing all this attention.
Bonner4Prez
KMA
I'm saying it does not matter when contact is made. Where in the rules does it say anything about that? If he was across the line when he caught it, first down. I'm not trying to be unreasonable - I just don't see where some people are getting their interpretation. How is this any different than reaching the ball across for a first down which you are allowed to do?
Although the rule no longer uses the language: in the grasp of an opponent”; philosophically it is implied through tradition. Both high school and college rules deem the ball dead and forward progress stopped when the ball carrier is “held so his (forward advancing) progress is stopped” (Federation Rule 4-2-2-a; NCAA Rule 4-1-3-a). NCAA Rule 4-1-3-a states that the ball becomes dead “when the runner is so held that his forward progress is stopped.” Officials must determine if the opponent of the runner has sufficiently held or grasped the runner so as to have stopped his forward movement. This action is what kills the play not the whistle. A quick whistle can get an official into trouble, but too much of delayed whistle can also cause problems. A quick whistle may lead to an inadvertent whistle. A slow whistle may allow for the ball to become loose or a player to become injured, etc. Therefore, officials must know when the forward movement has stopped.
A runner who is running sideways and is grasped or held by an opponent is no longer advancing the ball forward. Likewise, a ball carrier that is being pushed backward by an opponent is no longer advancing the ball forward and by rule the ball is dead. In situations where a runner is hit, knocked backward but not held in the opponent’s grasp, the runner may still advance the ball forward. The reason forward progress is not stopped is because the runner was not grasped. An airborne receiver who catches the ball and then is driven backward by an opponent and the ball then declared dead will be awarded the forward progress spot at the place where he received the pass. When a runner steps out of bounds the forward progress spot is where the ball was when the runner stepped out of bounds. On plays where the runner/airborne receiver stretched out the ball (before being downed) at the sideline, the forward progress spot is the foremost point of the ball where it intersects the sideline.
A runner who is running sideways and is grasped or held by an opponent is no longer advancing the ball forward. Likewise, a ball carrier that is being pushed backward by an opponent is no longer advancing the ball forward and by rule the ball is dead. In situations where a runner is hit, knocked backward but not held in the opponent’s grasp, the runner may still advance the ball forward. The reason forward progress is not stopped is because the runner was not grasped. An airborne receiver who catches the ball and then is driven backward by an opponent and the ball then declared dead will be awarded the forward progress spot at the place where he received the pass. When a runner steps out of bounds the forward progress spot is where the ball was when the runner stepped out of bounds. On plays where the runner/airborne receiver stretched out the ball (before being downed) at the sideline, the forward progress spot is the foremost point of the ball where it intersects the sideline.
Bonner4Prez
KMA
I don't see how this is a forward progress issue. He caught and possessed the ball in first down territory. That is all that should matter?
DangerFrog
Member
First of all, the ball wasn't "caught" until he hit the ground, and by then he was short of the first down. Second, if he gets the first down, but runs backwards, he loses that first down. It isn't like a TD where the second you cross the goaline, the play is over.
Frogs On A Plane
Ticket Exchange Pass
Just stop. You can't explain things to a conspiracy theorist. Just let him think everyone else are the crazy ones...
Hunt Together
Active Member
This is what you're not understanding. A first down marker is not the same as the goal line. It doesn't matter if you momentarily cross the first down marker, you have to finish the play across the marker to be a first down. Carter went behind the line (or damn close) on his own momentum, not because of a defender's hit.
Bonner4Prez
KMA
Yeah I know, but the rule mentions running back behind the first down, not momentum?
DangerFrog
Member
Irrelevant if under his own power.
Bonner4Prez
KMA
Upon further review, he lands right at the line:
First down TCU
First down TCU
gohornedfrogs
Tier 1
For the love of all women out there, God I hope Bonner isn't married.
10 Key Frog
Active Member
The head of NCAA refs could explain into bonner and he won't agree. He has never been wrong in his life and would never admit as such. Even when there's plenty of evidence on the other side.
FrogsMcGee
Active Member
If you land in first down territory and are driven backwards by a defender, then you are credited with forward progress and get a first down. If you land in first down territory but move backwards either by running or your own momentum, you are not credited with forward progress and you must regain the first down yardage in order to be credited with a first down. The picture posted most recently in this thread shows him landing in first down territory but does not show what happened next. What happened next is what determines the spot. In the video you posted, what happens is the players momentum drives him back to a spot that appears to be a yard short of the line to gain. There he is met by defenders and driven sideways out of bounds without regaining the line to gain. I'm not an expert, but that's my interpretation. Not a terrible call. Not a conspiracy. A tough bang bang call that I think they ultimately got right. Probably could have been reviewed but I don't think it would have been overturned.
