Rule Interpretation?: Kick Off Out-of-Bounds

[Pharm Frog]

Just saw something I've never seen before on a kickoff out-of-bounds and it has confused everyone including the officials who appeared to be thumbing through a rule book for an answer.
 
Situation:  Team A scores a touchdown on a short pass play against Team B.  Team B is called for PF Roughing the Passer and for PF Unnecessary Roughness for a very late hit on the receiver in the end zone.  Because this is high school, the kickoff is normally taken from the 40 yard line but after both penalties are assessed, Team A kicks off from the 30 yard line of Team B.  They attempt an pooch kick but the ball is untouched before going out-of-bounds at the 12 yard line.  Flag is thrown for the free kick out-of-bounds.  Where do you spot the ball and what options (if any) does Team B have?
 
The resolution was this:  Team B accepts the penalty and the ball is placed on the 12 yard line at the hash nearest the sideline where the ball went out-of-bounds.  Neither coach was satisfied with that and the game was delayed more than 15 minutes.  I think they may have gotten it right but I'm not certain.

 

[Bonner4Prez]

Gonna need Zebra on this one

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

Not sure what HS rules are, but I think college rules would dictate that the receiving team can elect to take the ball at the 17 or get a re-kick from their 35.

 

[Backup Waterboy]

Just saw something I've never seen before on a kickoff out-of-bounds and it has confused everyone including the officials who appeared to be thumbing through a rule book for an answer.
 
Situation:  Team A scores a touchdown on a short pass play against Team B.  Team B is called for PF Roughing the Passer and for PF Unnecessary Roughness for a very late hit on the receiver in the end zone.  Because this is high school, the kickoff is normally taken from the 40 yard line but after both penalties are assessed, Team A kicks off from the 30 yard line of Team B.  They attempt an pooch kick but the ball is untouched before going out-of-bounds at the 12 yard line.  Flag is thrown for the free kick out-of-bounds.  Where do you spot the ball and what options (if any) does Team B have?
 
The resolution was this:  Team B accepts the penalty and the ball is placed on the 12 yard line at the hash nearest the sideline where the ball went out-of-bounds.  Neither coach was satisfied with that and the game was delayed more than 15 minutes.  I think they may have gotten it right but I'm not certain.

They got it right. It's where it crossed or 30 yards from the kickoff location if it's the same as it used to be. Unusual situation.

 

[Backup Waterboy]

Not sure what HS rules are, but I think college rules would dictate that the receiving team can elect to take the ball at the 17 or get a re-kick from their 35.

This is right.

"If the ball goes out of bounds without being touched by a player, the receiving team can choose either to have the ball moved back 5 yards and re-kicked, to take the ball 25 yards (25 yards under National Federation high school rules) past the spot of the kick (usually at their own 35-yard line), or to take the ball where it went out of bounds. However, on an onside kick, if the ball does not travel ten yards before the kicking team recovers the ball, they will take a 5-yard penalty and has the chance to kick another onside kick. If the onside kick goes less than 10 yards again, the receiving team will receive the ball at the spot the kicking team recovered it. However, if the receiving team touches the ball before it goes 10 yards, either team can recover it unpenalized."

 

[Punter1]

I think it should go out to the 35...the kickoff went out of bounds.

The receiving team should only get benefits from a kicked ball out of bounds, like when we got it at the 50 after UT did that after a safety.

 

[Backup Waterboy]

In college it's 30 yards from kick

 

[campdavid23]

???? This is a good one...but they missed it...It's a 25 yd penalty from the spot of the kick or where the ball went out of bounds which ever has the most advantage for the receiving team... The receiving team can choose either ... If the penalty was taken the ball would be at the 5 yd line, if they declined it would at the 12 yd line

 

[Pharm Frog]

???? This is a good one...but they missed it...It's a 25 yd penalty from the spot of the kick or where the ball went out of bounds which ever has the most advantage for the receiving team... The receiving team can choose either ... If the penalty was taken the ball would be at the 5 yd line, if they declined it would at the 12 yd line

 
That's what confused me most.  They never signaled that the penalty was declined and even announced the penalty was accepted "and the ball will be placed at the 12-yard-line".  The best thing of all was listening to the broadcaster on the stream trying to fill the time while they were all talking about it.  I thought he might start reading the Classifieds Section of the newspaper to fill dead air.

 

[Frozen Frog]

In college it's 30 yards from kick

Learned that one when the UT player kicked the free kick out of bounds after the safety.

 

[pastorfrog]

Here's the rule in in Illinois High School, to the best of my knowledge as an IHSA Offical:

Only one 15 personal foul is assessed, on either the extra point or kickoff.

Ball should have been kicked off at the 45 yard line, going in.

If the ball goes out of bounds on a kickoff the R team gets three options: a 25 yard penalty (the standard when they get it at 35 but in this case the 20), back up 5 yards to rekick, or spot of out of bounds.

They screwed it up to the best of my knowledge. I suppose if Texas allows both personal fouls to be enforced (some do) it would be kicked off at the 30 yard line. But getting the ball at the 12 is a total failure. I always offer the best option first to the coach. Some officials are bums and do not clearly offer each option in a complicated situation.

 

[campdavid23]

You could assess 2 if it was a dead ball foul, which it sounded like.... But I think you are right, they missed it

 

[pastorfrog]

You could assess 2 if it was a dead ball foul, which it sounded like.... But I think you are right, they missed it

Now I'm grabbing my rule book at 11:30...

 

[Temcat Frog]

This is right.

"If the ball goes out of bounds without being touched by a player, the receiving team can choose either to have the ball moved back 5 yards and re-kicked, to take the ball 25 yards (25 yards under National Federation high school rules) past the spot of the kick (usually at their own 35-yard line), or to take the ball where it went out of bounds. However, on an onside kick, if the ball does not travel ten yards before the kicking team recovers the ball, they will take a 5-yard penalty and has the chance to kick another onside kick. If the onside kick goes less than 10 yards again, the receiving team will receive the ball at the spot the kicking team recovered it. However, if the receiving team touches the ball before it goes 10 yards, either team can recover it unpenalized."

If the game was played in Texas under UIL rules, I believe the proper distance is 30 yards from the point of the kick. The UIL plays by NCAA rules and not the National Federation Rule Book (unless that has changed recently).

 

[ftwfrog]

Did the quarterback who just played the game of his life stare at the kicker and yell, "are you darning kidding me!?"

 

[mc1502]

It depends.   Who's on first?

 

[Pharm Frog]

If the game was played in Texas under UIL rules, I believe the proper distance is 30 yards from the point of the kick. The UIL plays by NCAA rules and not the National Federation Rule Book (unless that has changed recently).

 
It was in Oklahoma under NFHS rules with limited state mods (none of which I can see modify the free kick out-of-bounds rule).  FWIW-I really don't like NFHS rules.  But I believe with near certainty that Texas high school football would not place the ball at the goal-line for scrimmage.

 

[y2kFrog]

If the game was played in Texas under UIL rules, I believe the proper distance is 30 yards from the point of the kick. The UIL plays by NCAA rules and not the National Federation Rule Book (unless that has changed recently).

The problem here was 30 yards from the kick was the end zone.

My question is why the kicking team didn't just onside kick, what is to lose???

 

[tcuhf93]

Gonna need Zebra on this one

One of the infamous 20.

 

[Pharm Frog]

The problem here was 30 yards from the kick was the end zone.

My question is why the kicking team didn't just onside kick, what is to lose???

 
They tried a pooch kick which wasn't too smart IMO given the very small field real estate in play and the possibility/probability that a receiver would simply call for a fair catch if the ball was in-bounds.  However, it could have been a very smart play if the coach knew that the receiving team would have to take the ball at the spot at which it crossed out-of-bounds (assuming the spot was correct).  But the kick was so close to being in-bounds that I doubt that he called for an angled kick to deliberatively be out-of-bounds.  I could see telling the kicker to kick it OOB as close to the goal line as possible if the rule was correctly applied.