Proof BIG 12 No Championship Model is Best?

[Jefffrog1993]

If the Big 12 had an undefeated team OU at 12-0 lets say who gets into the CFP and a one loss team either TCU, Baylor, OSU at 11-1 the big 12 could and would get two teams in the Playoff most likely.    The other conferences could have their championships and knock out their best shot at getting a team in and the BIg 12 model gets two in.   IT realy depends on each year, but fifty percent of the time we will get one champion in and in some years two.   With a championship most likely 1 team only.   In a horrible year like last year the first we got shut out.    Joining the club and having a championship game isn't the answer for CFP entrance.  When the Big 12 gets two team in the CFP watch all the other conferences want to shirnk and dump their championship games like the Big 12.   We might be leading from behind, but we are different and leading perhaps.   
 
 
The best argument for have divisions and 12 or more teams is to have more higher ranked teams in your conference due to the best not beating up the best every year like the Big 12 does. See SEC and Big 10 this year.   All of this is so new that big quick reactions to problems shouldn't be done and prop's to our conference for not jumping on the popular bandwagon to expand and have a championship game.  Think before you act or react don't do something stupid based on too small a sample size.    Okay board flame away!!!

 

[westoverhillbilly]

Jefffrog, I agree with you that the Big 12 model isn't inferior to the others, it is just different.. Our conference is kind of out of favor right now, but that could change especially if OU makes a good showing.. I'm hoping that Iowa wins on Saturday and then gets massacred in the first round of the CFP, same with Clemson and whoever else gets in except OU..

 

[Get Your Frogs Up]

More of a hypothetical than proof. And the Big 10 might be an Alabama or Clemson loss away from getting two teams in this year, in real life, under the two division format.

 

[jake102]

Let's say that OU beat UT and Baylor beat TCU. OU would be 12-0 and Baylor would be 11-1.
 
I can guarantee you that a two loss Stanford champion would jump them if there was a 4th spot open.
 
The only way I see this happening is if the teams were OU and UT.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

If the Big 12 had an undefeated team OU at 12-0 lets say who gets into the CFP and a one loss team either TCU, Baylor, OSU at 11-1 the big 12 could and would get two teams in the Playoff most likely.    The other conferences could have their championships and knock out their best shot at getting a team in and the BIg 12 model gets two in.   IT realy depends on each year, but fifty percent of the time we will get one champion in and in some years two.   With a championship most likely 1 team only.   In a horrible year like last year the first we got shut out.    Joining the club and having a championship game isn't the answer for CFP entrance.  When the Big 12 gets two team in the CFP watch all the other conferences want to shirnk and dump their championship games like the Big 12.   We might be leading from behind, but we are different and leading perhaps.   
 
 
The best argument for have divisions and 12 or more teams is to have more higher ranked teams in your conference due to the best not beating up the best every year like the Big 12 does. See SEC and Big 10 this year.   All of this is so new that big quick reactions to problems shouldn't be done and prop's to our conference for not jumping on the popular bandwagon to expand and have a championship game.  Think before you act or react don't do something stupid based on too small a sample size.    Okay board flame away!!!

If Ohio State doesn't make it in this year, the Big 12 has zero, ZERO, chance of getting a 1-loss non-champion in. Period. End of story.

 

[jake102]

Yep, if Clemson loses your final four will be Bama, OU, Mich State/Iowa winner, Ohio State
 
Clemson is only a 4.5 favorite by the way.

 

[XIIFrog]

I like the round robin format and think adding what would be a rematch championship game just for the sake of having a "championship game" would be unfair, dumb, and wouldn't sell many tickets.
 
However, I think the XII format is the most beneficial if you have "Texas" or "Sooners" on the front of your jersey. Those teams will have no problem getting into the playoff with a loss. The rest of us, though, will either have to go undefeated or have a lot of things go our way that are out of our control if we want to sneak in. Luckily, our non-conference schedule moving forward should put us in a good position to make a case. Baylor is screwed.
 
As for the XII getting two teams in, either those teams would have to be OU and Texas, or a lot of chaos would have to occur in the other conferences. 

 

[Dutch]

I prefer the round robin, but I heard Bill Snyder say that it is in K State best interest to have 2 divisions. I understand him in that when there was a weaker Big 12 North  K State could shine no matter what the Texas and Oklahoma teams do. Hard to see how the northern half of the current Big 12 can ever really compete in football without divisions. If they added more schools I would like to see TCU in the Northern one and play BYU KState etc every year and Texas, Tech, OU etc every other year . Personally I love the road trip to Utah.

 

[Fred Garvin]

Look at the other leagues' championship games this year.  What do they actually prove?  
 
SEC - East champ Florida is a joke.  Will not make playoff if they win.  Therefore - just an extra game that could eliminate their best team if upset.
 
BiG - Weak team from West goes undefeated after playing no BiG team considered to be in their top three teams all year due to watered down 14 team conference schedule.  Winner goes to playoff but 2nd best team doesn't have 13th game bump while the other division champ gets an "L".
 
PAC12 - Championship game a non-factor because teams had to play 9 game regular season schedule and all have 2+ losses
 
ACC - One loss North Carolina will not make playoff if they beat Clemson because of their 14 team conference weak schedule.  Clemson has to win another game despite clearly being the best team in the conference
 
AAC, and others - no one cares unless they go undefeated.  Championship would just be a 13th game that their best team has to win or they are out
 
Big 12 - One loss Champion is in the playoff, despite it being a pretty bad loss. Does not have to win 13th game.
 
Therefore, I proclaim the Big 12's round robin 9 team schedule to be better.

 

[TxFrog1999]

If a one-loss, outright conference champion Oklahoma is left out of the playoffs to be replaced by a one-loss Ohio State that didn't even win their division then we might get an 8-team playoff sooner than we all thought. One of the reasons we were left out last year, at least according to their ever-moving "criteria," was the fact that we didn't win our conference outright.

 

[jake102]

OU is the only team that I locked in this year. No game to play, they are in.
 
If TCU was in the same situation, we would be #4, Iowa would be #3 and there would be heavy debate on whether 9-2 Stanford should jump us after winning their CCG.
 
If there's one sure fire way to get left out of the playoff, it's to lose a game by three points to a highly ranked opponent (TCU & Ohio State).

 

[TCUWIN]

Let's say that OU beat UT and Baylor beat TCU. OU would be 12-0 and Baylor would be 11-1.
 
I can guarantee you that a two loss Stanford champion would jump them if there was a 4th spot open.
 
The only way I see this happening is if the teams were OU and UT.

Can we change the hypothetical example to OU beat UT and TCU beat OSU? I don't want to think of Baylor beating TCU. Thanks, carry on. 

 

[TCUWIN]

OU is the only team that I locked in this year. No game to play, they are in.
 
If TCU was in the same situation, we would be #4, Iowa would be #3 and there would be heavy debate on whether 9-2 Stanford should jump us after winning their CCG.
 
If there's one sure fire way to get left out of the playoff, it's to lose a game by three points to a highly ranked opponent (TCU & Ohio State).

And Stanford would jump us because the committee would use the extra game excuse. 

 

[frognutz]

Adding teams to a conference, adding championship games, taking away championship games all in the name of a better chance at what is a total crapshoot 4 team invitational anyway is just plain dumb.

The hype of the weekly rankings was ratcheted way back this season on probably will be more so next season. I'm glad people seem to be more focused on just winning their conference than all this commitee mumbo jumbo.

 

[frognutz]

OU is the only team that I locked in this year. No game to play, they are in.
 
If TCU was in the same situation, we would be #4, Iowa would be #3 and there would be heavy debate on whether 9-2 Stanford should jump us after winning their CCG.
 
If there's one sure fire way to get left out of the playoff, it's to lose a game by three points to a highly ranked opponent (TCU & Ohio State).

Had we kicked 2 extra points in Norman, we'd be in the playoff and there really isn't much debate IMO. That really really sucks.

 

[eh0215]

WV will finish 8-4. They might be a top 15 caliber team for all we know. If we had a 12 team league, they may have been able to go 10-2 or so by avoiding a couple of OU, OSU, Baylor, and TCU.
 
The nuts and bolts of it are hard, basic math. We assure ourselves an average of 4.5 losses per season across the conference. 12 team conferences with 8 conference games assure themselves an average of 4 losses per season.
 
This has been one of the worst SEC OOC seasons in a very long time. The Big 12 had a really strong OOC season. SEC schools still average more wins per team this season than Big 12 schools. Basic. Math.

 

[jake102]

Yup, the round robin especially affects the middle and bottom of our league.
 
Put WVU in the "North" with KState, Kansas, Iowa State, OU and OSU and they are 10-2 if they "magically" avoid TCU and Baylor.
 
Top 20 team.

 

[frognutz]

Let's say that OU beat UT and Baylor beat TCU. OU would be 12-0 and Baylor would be 11-1.
 
I can guarantee you that a two loss Stanford champion would jump them if there was a 4th spot open.
 
The only way I see this happening is if the teams were OU and UT.

 
I don't think we'll ever see 2 teams from the same conference in the playoff 4 unless conferences get rid of championship games.

 

[Rex Ringo]

I think a big part of it also has to do with when that loss happens. What if TCU had lost to OU in the third game of the year, then picked up steam all year, finishing with wins over then-undefeated OSU and Baylor to close things out? At that point it wouldn't be a guarantee, but a one-loss non-blue blood Big XII team would have a shot.

 

[TxFrog1999]

WV will finish 8-4. They might be a top 15 caliber team for all we know. If we had a 12 team league, they may have been able to go 10-2 or so by avoiding a couple of OU, OSU, Baylor, and TCU.
 
The nuts and bolts of it are hard, basic math. We assure ourselves an average of 4.5 losses per season across the conference. 12 team conferences with 8 conference games assure themselves an average of 4 losses per season.
 
This has been one of the worst SEC OOC seasons in a very long time. The Big 12 had a really strong OOC season. SEC schools still average more wins per team this season than Big 12 schools. Basic. Math.

 
In order for many of the talking heads to understand this it'll need to be refactored as remedial math at best.