• The KillerFrogs

Oh boy..... this is gonna go over REAL well

satis1103

DAOTONPYH EHT LIAH LLA
I don’t consider Missouri the middle of the SEC, more towards the bottom. If we’re using the fact that UT beat Missouri as some sort of gauge that the Big 12 is almost as good as the SEC, that’s not saying much. The programs like LSU, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, A&M and Tennessee are on a whole superior to Texas Tech, Texas, TCU, Okie State, Kansas State and West Virginia. I’m not sure how that can really be debated.
Missouri went 7-6 and 4-4 in SEC play. I don't see how that can be "towards the bottom". And we don't play a lot of those teams. Do you have something other than reputation or opinion that tells you, for example, that TCU wouldn't beat Auburn or LSU?
 

froginaustin

Active Member
Take every conference’s best team away from them and the SEC is still the best. The Big 12 without OU would be a pretty [ steaming pile of Orgeron ]ty league, as would be the ACC without Clemson and the Big 10 without Ohio State. The SECs biggest advantage over the other leagues is that their middle and bottom tiers are far stronger on average than other leagues IMO.

Take away the top team in the B12 and the SEC, and the next 9 teams in the SEC are likely better than the next 9 teams in the B12. It would be strange if they weren't.

I don't know how one would adjust the numbers, to compare 9 Big12 teams to 13 SEC teams. Maybe someone that's smarter in statistics does.

Trying to compare, I suppose you could select 9 teams at random from the 13-team not-Alabama part of the SEC. But doing that would stick our conference with turribad KU every time, and the SEC would at least have a bettor's chance of avoiding their worst [ Finebaum ]s.

Come to think of it, maybe 9 random non-Alabama teams out of the SEC would usually be better than the bottom 9 of the B12, at least in 2018. In addition to turribad KU, the 2018 B12 also features post-Briles Baylor and Coach Bro's withering TTech program. KU, BU, TTech; probably pretty awful teams in 2018 at least by P5 standards.

On the other hand, it looks like Iowa State and K-State, usually also-rans, would be a problem for just about anyone in the SEC except 'Bama (or Georgia, lately).
 

Wexahu

Full Member
wait, a&m is a superior program to texas? aside from being in the sec exactly what has a&m done to merit that designation?

texas has pissed away a load of talent and i can't stand mensa, but texas has won and played for another nc this century and during their time in the big 12 a&m won 1 conference title back in the early days of the conference.

No, but they are better than K-State, Texas Tech and West Virginia. LSU, Auburn and Georgia are better than Texas. I said "as a whole" meaning as a group that SEC group is better.
 

froginaustin

Active Member
Missouri went 7-6 and 4-4 in SEC play. I don't see how that can be "towards the bottom". And we don't play a lot of those teams. Do you have something other than reputation or opinion that tells you, for example, that TCU wouldn't beat Auburn or LSU?

TCU's last game against LSU comes to mind. Since that is history, I suppose relying on that game going forward is nothing more than reputation or opinion.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Take away the top team in the B12 and the SEC, and the next 9 teams in the SEC are likely better than the next 9 teams in the B12. It would be strange if they weren't.

I don't know how one would adjust the numbers, to compare 9 Big12 teams to 13 SEC teams. Maybe someone that's smarter in statistics does.

Trying to compare, I suppose you could select 9 teams at random from the 13-team not-Alabama part of the SEC. But doing that would stick our conference with turribad KU every time, and the SEC would at least have a bettor's chance of avoiding their worst [ Orgeron ]s.

Come to think of it, maybe 9 random non-Alabama teams out of the SEC would usually be better than the bottom 9 of the B12, at least in 2018. In addition to turribad KU, the 2018 B12 also features post-Briles Baylor and Coach Bro's withering TTech program. KU, BU, TTech; probably pretty awful teams in 2018 at least by P5 standards.

On the other hand, it looks like Iowa State and K-State, usually also-rans, would be a problem for just about anyone in the SEC except 'Bama (or Georgia, lately).

Well, Vanderbilt beat K-State this past year. And saying Iowa State would be a problem for anyone in the SEC is like saying middle-to-bottom tier SEC Mississippi State would handle most Big 12 teams after one of their good years. Iowa State normally stinks. Let's see them put together a few good years before we put them on the same pedestal as average SEC teams.
 

Eight

Member
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No, but they are better than K-State, Texas Tech and West Virginia. LSU, Auburn and Georgia are better than Texas. I said "as a whole" meaning as a group that SEC group is better.

so why are lsu, auburn, and uga better than texas?

history? no. facilities? no. resources? no. brand recognition? no.

i agree that in regards of being a "program" we are talking about something more than on the field results. it is tough for many of the schools in the big 12 to compare because they are limited in regards of enrollment and state populations.

none of that applies to texas and i agree with moose
 

Sebastian S

Active Member
From the interweb:
  1. No team other than Alabama has finished a season with fewer than three losses since 2013.
  2. No team other than Alabama won more than nine games in 2016.
  3. Over the past three years, the Crimson Tide have five fewer losses in league play, at 22-2, than the next-closest competitor, Florida.
  4. During the past half-decade, Alabama's 36-4 conference record is miles beyond the next-best on the list — Georgia and Florida at 27-13.
  5. Auburn and LSU are a combined 25-23 in SEC action since the start of the 2014 season
 

Sebastian S

Active Member
And TCU lost to Arkansas last year. A&M also beat WVU in their bowl game a couple years back. You can come up with any outcome you want if you cherry pick games.
So what criteria did you use to say A&M is better than Kstate?
Number of fans?
How they recruit?
Size of stadium?

Does A&M have a better record over the past couple of years?(I honestly don't know)
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Besides recruiting, I put TCU above all those schools except LSU and maybe Auburn.

Georgia just recently became good.

Texas Tech just sht the bed in football. I think Baylor has a brighter football future than Tech.

Texas shouldn't stay down for long. If they do stay down, I won't be upset.

Stuff like this is just totally not true. Georgia has been a very solid team for a long, long time.

Georgia records since 1990:
90's - 72-43-1 (62% winning %)
00's - 98-31 (78% winning %)
10's - 77-31 (71% winning %)
Record since 2012 - 61-14 (81% winning %)

TCU's records since 1990:
90's - 51-61-1 (45% winning %)....playing in the SWC, WAC and CUSA
00's - 95-29 (77% winning %)......playing in the WAC, CUSA and MWC)
10's - 75-19 (72% winning %).....playing in the MWC and Big 12
Record since joining Big 12 - 51-27 (65% winning %)

So even though Georgia "hasn't been good" until recently, in the 00's they managed to have a better winning % than TCU had in that same decade. Their winning % this decade is almost as good as TCU's even though they didn't have the benefit of playing in the MWC for two years. Their record since when TCU joined the Big 12 is substantially better. I didn't even bother showing records from the 80's, that wouldn't even be fair to the Frogs.

So if Georgia hasn't been good until just recently, where does that put TCU? Are we even good at all?

That's some serious tone deaf stuff right there. It's amazing how people see everyone else's warts but none of their own. That translates to conference arguments as well.
 

RollToad

Baylor is Trash.
From the interweb:
  1. No team other than Alabama has finished a season with fewer than three losses since 2013.
  2. No team other than Alabama won more than nine games in 2016.
  3. Over the past three years, the Crimson Tide have five fewer losses in league play, at 22-2, than the next-closest competitor, Florida.
  4. During the past half-decade, Alabama's 36-4 conference record is miles beyond the next-best on the list — Georgia and Florida at 27-13.
  5. Auburn and LSU are a combined 25-23 in SEC action since the start of the 2014 season
What kind of [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ] is this?
 

Sebastian S

Active Member
Georgia plays in the SEC east and being part of the SEC, they only play 8 conference games.

TCU w/ Patterson > Georgia

tenor.gif
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Georgia plays in the SEC east and being part of the SEC, they only play 8 conference games.

TCU w/ Patterson > Georgia

tenor.gif

OK, but the records don't really suggest that. For most of the 90's and 00's TCU played 2-4 P5 teams per year, and Georgia's record was still better. But I guess Georgia just in the last couple years got good. Ok, that makes sense.
 

f_399

Active Member
I think most agree the sec is a better conference as a whole but I also agree with some that say TCU is better than most teams in the sec not named Alabama, LSU, Auburn
 
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