Coaches #4

[flyfishingfrog]

So if Team A wins their conference championship game by 59 points at a neutral site and Team B beats a 1-win team at home by 52 points.....those outcomes couldn't possibly change a voters opinion when it comes to Team A? Is that what you're saying? I think it's perfectly logical for an outcome like that to turn the tables somewhat and alter a "re-vote" as you call it, especially if teams 4-6 were basically in a dead heat for that 4th spot, which is exactly what the committee said before that final week.

Why did the committee have TCU ranked ahead of Ohio State going into that game? Logic would tell me that if all they care about is putting blue bloods in, why wouldn't they just go ahead and do it in Week 13 instead of waiting for Week 14? Or are you convinced it was all a very orchestrated setup? You know, there are reps from other conferences too, not just the SEC and Big 12. Do you think they are paying off the Big 12, ACC and Pac 12 commissioners and ADs to keep quiet?

To make people watch - it was pretty obvious

Same as this year - they will throw stuff around so people tune in before the final week

The issue they will have is if each year "blue blood" programs get in over others - then people will tune it all out eventually

 

[Zubaz]

I have no doubt that there's some conference bias . I don't know that it's enough to overtake logic, but I'm sure it's there just because they probably watch "their school" (and by extension, their conference) more.

There's zero evidence there's "tv market bias" though. That makes no sense based on the results we've seen thus far, or the way that the committee is even set up. That's just tinfoil hat stuff.

 

[netty2424]

So if Team A wins their conference championship game by 59 points at a neutral site and Team B beats a 1-win team at home by 52 points.....those outcomes couldn't possibly change a voters opinion when it comes to Team A? Is that what you're saying? I think it's perfectly logical for an outcome like that to turn the tables somewhat and alter a "re-vote" as you call it, especially if teams 4-6 were basically in a dead heat for that 4th spot, which is exactly what the committee said before that final week.

Why did the committee have TCU ranked ahead of Ohio State going into that game? Logic would tell me that if all they care about is putting blue bloods in, why wouldn't they just go ahead and do it in Week 13 instead of waiting for Week 14? Or are you convinced it was all a very orchestrated setup? You know, there are reps from other conferences too, not just the SEC and Big 12. Do you think they are paying off the Big 12, ACC and Pac 12 commissioners and ADs to keep quiet?

I'd call your hypothetical a wash at that point in the season. Body of work has been established which is precisely why TCU was ranked ahead of your Alma mater coming into that final "data point."

The committee knew who we had left to play and no outcome would've changed what was to come. Did we need to win by 100? 150?

Wiscy got beat by 59 or whatever it was, so they obviously weren't a worthy opponent to begin with. How does losing by 59 or 52 help anyone's SOS?

Regarding the re-vote, don't act like it's the first time you've heard of it. I didn't coin that term, it was openly discussed by Jeff Long and well documented. Why didn't the first vote make the call? What's the point in voting if you don't respect the outcome.............until it's fits an agenda.

Ahhh, there's that agenda word again. Funny how it comes full circle yet you're the only person who thinks wins and losses are the only factors considered.

 

[Prince of Purpoole]

Penn State can't go 13-0 and Ohio State go 12-1. If Penn State is 13-0, the best OSU can do is 10-2. If OSU goes 12-1, the best PSU can do is go 11-1.

And a 1-loss Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia, or USC is not making the playoffs ahead of a 13-0 TCU. Not in a million years, I don't know why people continue to think that is even a remote possibility.

I think you are right. Possibly the angst stems from listening to too much ESPNU S/XM programming. I’ve been off the last few days and the way most of the hosts dismiss TCU is a bit maddening

 

[Zubaz]

Regarding the re-vote, don't act like it's the first time you've heard of it. I didn't coin that term, it was openly discussed by Jeff Long and well documented. Why didn't the first vote make the call? What's the point in voting if you don't respect the outcome.............until it's fits an agenda.

I always thought "revote" was because they needed a majority. With three teams vying for that last spot, the first vote didn't have anyone get over 50%. You could have seen 33/33/33, then another vote maybe at 40/25/35 or whatever, and so on.

I don't know this, but if I had to guess, I'm guessing they polled TCU / Baylor / Ohio State, whoever was lowest was eliminated (I'm guessing us due to Baylor H2H), then revoted between the remaining two. That doesn't seem that inappropriate, and certainly far less sinister than some want that "re-vote" to be.

 

[frog9999]

I have no doubt that there's some conference bias . I don't know that it's enough to overtake logic, but I'm sure it's there just because they probably watch "their school" (and by extension, their conference) more.

There's zero evidence there's "tv market bias" though. That makes no sense based on the results we've seen thus far, or the way that the committee is even set up. That's just tinfoil hat stuff.

Keep dreaming. who knows, maybe Wake Forrest will be considered in the future. I think their school size is around 1800,

 

[Zubaz]

Show me some evidence of TV Market bias and I'll consider it. What actually happened was Washington getting in over USC (who beat them), Penn State and Oklahoma last year, and Michigan State getting in over Ohio State and Florida State the year before. If you really want to hang your hat on 2014 (which has entirely reasonable, if unfortunate, explanations), be my guest, but as I said earlier...that's mostly just tinfoil.

 

[Peacefrog]

I have no doubt that there's some conference bias . I don't know that it's enough to overtake logic, but I'm sure it's there just because they probably watch "their school" (and by extension, their conference) more.

There's zero evidence there's "tv market bias" though. That makes no sense based on the results we've seen thus far, or the way that the committee is even set up. That's just tinfoil hat stuff.

I have a very nice tinfoil hat, thank you very much. And it knows things.

 

[Bizarro Frog]

These are not facts just my opinion -

In 2014 the Committee was hearing a firestorm every week from the media, especially ESPN, on how could TCU be ranked above Baylor since we lost head to head. The next to last week they moved us to 3rd because they thought we were the better team and put Florida St behind us to create a cushion between us and Baylor. They knew they were going to catch hell if they put us in over the Bears but I think they were going to do it. They had already decided a 1 loss Oregon and 1 loss Alabama were in as long as they won their conference championship games. Not sure if they though FL St was worthy but it would be impossible to leave an undefeated defending champ out. Then something unexpected happened that last Saturday when 4 point underdog Ohio St annihilated Wisconsin. That coupled with Oklahoma deciding to accept a 5 yard penalty after pinning the Cowboys at the 15 and punt again to Tyreek Hill for a 92 yard TD return to tie the game meant our best win was now over a non-ranked team. Suddenly a scenario presented itself to solve their TCU Baylor problem. Put Ohio St in and then move Baylor ahead of us to 5 to solve the head to head argument since it mattered very little if were 5th or 6th.

I think if Baylor had lost to K St that last night we would have been in as the 3 seed and played Oregon in the Rose Bowl. Being tied to them nearly all season got us in the end.

Ohio St was the best of the 4 teams that made the playoffs and got to prove it on the field. We were not given that opportunity and I honestly think we were the best team in the nation that year.

I think the playoffs would have been the same as the next to last week's rankings-
1 Alabama
2 Oregon
3 TCU
4 Florida St.

Given the time to prepare I think we would have taken care of a beat up Oregon team being held together by Mariota. Then Coach P would have shut down Alabama's run game and dared a very inconsistent QB to beat us. We had so much speed and talent on offense that we would have spread Bama's D out and beat them in open space. With only a week to prepare even Saban would struggle to stop us.

 

[Wexahu]

I think you are right. Possibly the angst stems from listening to too much ESPNU S/XM programming. I’ve been off the last few days and the way most of the hosts dismiss TCU is a bit maddening

There is obviously some projecting going on as far as how they think teams will finish. Miami is in the same position we are. Theoretically, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Michigan State, Michigan, and Kentucky are in the same position as OSU and Clemson are in (win out, and there is a very good chance you're in) and those teams are getting pretty much dismissed too. But the outcomes of the games are what matters in the end. What they think of OSU and Clemson is kind of irrelevant, both of those teams path is very cut and dried. Win out, they are in, lose again and they aren't. We're gonna hear a lot of crap between now and December about those teams but that's really all its gonna come down to. They've used up their mulligans. I'd love it if they both lost so we could quit talking about them.

 

[Wexahu]

Keep dreaming. who knows, maybe Wake Forrest will be considered in the future. I think their school size is around 1800,

Wake Forest will be considered if they deserve to be. The reason they aren't is because they are usually a crap team.

 

[Peacefrog]

Can we all agree that no one is going to convince anyone else that he is right or wrong? 2014 sucked for us. Should have beat Baylor.

 

[Wexahu]

These are not facts just my opinion -

In 2014 the Committee was hearing a firestorm every week from the media, especially ESPN, on how could TCU be ranked above Baylor since we lost head to head. The next to last week they moved us to 3rd because they thought we were the better team and put Florida St behind us to create a cushion between us and Baylor. They knew they were going to catch hell if they put us in over the Bears but I think they were going to do it. They had already decided a 1 loss Oregon and 1 loss Alabama were in as long as they won their conference championship games. Not sure if they though FL St was worthy but it would be impossible to leave an undefeated defending champ out. Then something unexpected happened that last Saturday when 4 point underdog Ohio St annihilated Wisconsin. That coupled with Oklahoma deciding to accept a 5 yard penalty after pinning the Cowboys at the 15 and punt again to Tyreek Hill for a 92 yard TD return to tie the game meant our best win was now over a non-ranked team. Suddenly a scenario presented itself to solve their TCU Baylor problem. Put Ohio St in and then move Baylor ahead of us to 5 to solve the head to head argument since it mattered very little if were 5th or 6th.

I think if Baylor had lost to K St that last night we would have been in as the 3 seed and played Oregon in the Rose Bowl. Being tied to them nearly all season got us in the end.

Ohio St was the best of the 4 teams that made the playoffs and got to prove it on the field. We were not given that opportunity and I honestly think we were the best team in the nation that year.

I think the playoffs would have been the same as the next to last week's rankings-
1 Alabama
2 Oregon
3 TCU
4 Florida St.

Given the time to prepare I think we would have taken care of a beat up Oregon team being held together by Mariota. Then Coach P would have shut down Alabama's run game and dared a very inconsistent QB to beat us. We had so much speed and talent on offense that we would have spread Bama's D out and beat them in open space. With only a week to prepare even Saban would struggle to stop us.

I don't agree completely but that's a good post. What gets lost in the shuffle is why Oregon got a free pass from not only our fan base, but just about everyone. (I think its because they aren't Big 10 or SEC so they don't fit the popular argument.) IMO Ohio State had a better resume than Oregon but it was just a given, and everyone was accepting of the fact that they were a playoff team. No controversy at all for some reason. Ohio State was clearly a better all-around team than Oregon, especially along the O and D-lines.

It's really, really hard to say the best of the four teams to make the playoffs shouldn't have even been there. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Zubaz]

Can we all agree that no one is going to convince anyone else that he is right or wrong? 2014 sucked for us. Should have beat Baylor.

I think the thing everyone agrees on is there were six teams worthy of 4 spots. Two teams were going to get screwed, and we (both as a team and as a conference) gave them a reason to exclude us. It stunk, hopefully it doesn't happen again.

 

[frog9999]

Wake Forest will be considered if they deserve to be. The reason they aren't is because they are usually a crap team.

Again dream on. If we don't go 13-0, we are out. 12-1 and they vote until they get it right. I really hope I'm wrong, but the ESPN influence in a 4 team playoff is strong and they only have 2 games (not counting the championship). Perceived TV eyes with 4 big state schools 44$$(or ND) > 3 plus 1 small school. Eight team playoff and I believe ESPN accepts the novelty and even plays up the small school(underdog) angle. When I say ESPN, I am referring to ESPN/Disney management and not the talking heads. That said, let's go 13-0 and leave no doubt. Beat KU

 

[Bizarro Frog]

I don't agree completely but that's a good post. What gets lost in the shuffle is why Oregon got a free pass from not only our fan base, but just about everyone. (I think its because they aren't Big 10 or SEC so they don't fit the popular argument.) IMO Ohio State had a better resume than Oregon but it was just a given, and everyone was accepting of the fact that they were a playoff team. No controversy at all for some reason. Ohio State was clearly a better all-around team than Oregon, especially along the O and D-lines.

It's really, really hard to say the best of the four teams to make the playoffs shouldn't have even been there. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's my guess they would have left Ohio St out in that scenario, not that they deserved to be left out. I agree with your point on Oregon. If I remember correctly the the Pac12 title game against Arizona was not a very well played game. I was shocked at how poor AZ looked and played and that they beat Oregon earlier in the season.

 

[NNM]

If I've been doing anything, it's paying attention. When an 11-1 Big 12 co-champ didn't make it in over a 12-1 Big 10 champion this fan base about had a meltdown. Even in that situation, it was close, and it was somewhat controversial that Ohio State was picked. And we weren't undefeated, nor did we win a championship game. OSU has already missed the playoffs before with an 11-1 record just like we did so that isn't unprecedented either.

No offense, but if you think there's a chance in hell that a 13-0 Big 12 champion won't make it over a 12-1 OSU team (especially when we'll have at least one and maybe two wins over the team that beat OSU), then you are just looking for an opportunity to [ poofster ] and complain.

Absolutely there’s a chance in hell. It won’t happen this year because there won’t be any undefeated P12 champ.

But let’s assume an undefeated Bama, P12, and ACC champ (better for my argument, assume it’s USC and Clemson, who have clearly established themselves). Then take tOSU’s scenario this year. They lost in the very first game of the season, the perfect time to lose. Then they run the table, including taking out PSU, Mich, Wisky, and the B1G champ game. Given that non-existent set of circumstances, if it came down to an undefeated TCU or a one-loss tOSU whose loss was 12 games ago I have absolutely no confidence TCU gets in. I think it’s probable, but by no means guaranteed.

The problem with this whole thing is 4 spots for 5 conferences. It’s stupid. Leaving these decisions up to idiotic committee members who have inherent biases and obviously changing standards year to year is patently absurd.

If TCU blows a game or two, I’m rooting for an all-B1G/SECSECSEC playoff. That’s so absurd it would force changes, the same way the stupid SECSECSEC West rematch MNC game forced changes several years ago.

 

[Wexahu]

Perceived TV eyes

What? There is no proof at all that a national playoff game with TCU in it would have lesser TV ratings than one with a big state school. In fact, I could probably make an argument that it might have better ratings. As I mentioned before, our Rose Bowl game got great TV ratings and we were playing Wisconsin, who you wouldn't think is exactly a ratings grabber. We've proven to be a great TV draw and generally, people are interested in seeing new teams involved rather than the same cast of characters every year. That's what would build interest in the overall product from a national standpoint.

 

[Wexahu]

if it came down to an undefeated TCU or a one-loss tOSU whose loss was 12 games ago I have absolutely no confidence TCU gets in. I think it’s probable, but by no means guaranteed.
.

Even if TCU had beaten the team OSU lost to at least once and maybe twice? You really honestly believe that? I think you're completely delusional because there is no way in hell that happens. The whole playoff would lose all credibility because there would be no argument to make on OSU's behalf in that scenario. None.

 

[NNM]

Even if TCU had beaten the team OSU lost to at least once and maybe twice? You really honestly believe that? I think you're completely delusional because there is no way in hell that happens. The whole playoff would lose all credibility because there would be no argument to make on OSU's behalf in that scenario. None.

Yes, I honestly believe that. Yes, it’s possible. And no, I’m not delusional. And yes, there is a chance. If you can’t already see the conference bias by tOSU being ranked higher than the team it lost to at home, by multiple scores, then perhaps it is you that has dishonest beliefs in the impossible and delusional faith in the absolute inerrancy of the CFP committee.