2018 US News Ranking, TCU #78

[Ron Swanson]

So if the reasoning follows, wealthy Texans whose kids can’t cut the UT/A&M system, apply to TCU? Not really arguing. I just submit that the heavily stacked liberal academia which is packed into a place like CA skews these sort of ratings. They came from the Ivy League, so it follows that where they end up (eg. CA U System) must therefore be Ivy L West.

Yes

I’m sure it has lessened quite a bit for A&M because I don’t think they are any harder to get into than TCU these days (maybe it’s even flipped, not sure), but UT for sure. The Top 10% rule has made UT hard as ship to get into and TCU gets quite a lot of its students from that.

 

[Paint It Purple]

Yes

I’m sure it has lessened quite a bit for A&M because I don’t think they are any harder to get into than TCU these days (maybe it’s even flipped, not sure), but UT for sure. The Top 10% rule has made UT hard as ship to get into and TCU gets quite a lot of its students from that.

Not sure factual reality backs up your claim. My be more true for Tech or OU, or SHSU. My (granted casual) observation is that TCU’s average student is at TCU because they prefer it over a huge institution like UT or A&M.

 

[froginaustin]

Yes

I’m sure it has lessened quite a bit for A&M because I don’t think they are any harder to get into than TCU these days (maybe it’s even flipped, not sure), but UT for sure. The Top 10% rule has made UT hard as ship to get into and TCU gets quite a lot of its students from that.

At UTx, the cutoff for automatic admission is now top 8% (or maybe 7%, not that it matters much). Very tight admissions for kids from little high schools, where finishing 3rd or 4th in a graduating class may push one out of the top 8%.
And tough for graduates of large, urban/suburban high schools where the competition is or should be ferocious.
Lots of talented kids end up at TCU/SMU/Trinity, or out of state.
Of course there's the ultimate safety school for the mediocre well-to-do, Baylor.

 

[Deep Purple]

I don't see where grad programs are considered at all in the "undergraduate" ranking methodology.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/how-us-news-calculated-the-rankings

For example, here is Baylor's overall score and the ranking indicators:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/baylor-university-6967/rankings

And, here is TCU's:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/tcu-3636/rankings

Note no indicators for grad school numbers or strength.

It's in the Reputation rating, which is the most heavily weighted rating in the entire ranking. When academic Deans get the US News poll asking them to rate scores of institutions by reputation, most of them have no idea how a particular school's reputation lies. So they tend to rate the schools where their faculty obtained their graduate degrees -- which most often are schools with larger graduate programs.

It's one of the ironies of the US News ranking. It's supposedly and undergraduate ranking whose most heavily weighted factor is graduate programs.

 

[Hoosierfrog]

It's in the Reputation rating, which is the most heavily weighted rating in the entire ranking. When academic Deans get the US News poll asking them to rate scores of institutions by reputation, most of them have no idea how a particular school's reputation lies. So they tend to rate the schools where their faculty obtained their graduate degrees -- which most often are schools with larger graduate programs.

It's one of the ironies of the US News ranking. It's supposedly and undergraduate ranking whose most heavily weighted factor is graduate programs.

Do think perhaps more than their faculty alma maters it couldn’t just be those schools they have been conditioned to believe are “up there”?

My personal experience in living in New England, California, the Midwest and even in Houston, is that people confuse the “alphabet” schools. I knew people in the office in Houston that continually confused TCU and TSU. People up here can’t seem to differentiate between TCU and SMU. I think Ivy League schools would ranked even if they disappeared. I hear people that will swear Rutgers and Colgate are Ivy League. I would hope deans were a little more in tune, but people get lazy.

 

[jake102]

My (granted casual) observation is that TCU’s average student is at TCU because they prefer it over a huge institution like UT or A&M.

Yeh I think in general you are correct, but there's also a chunk of students we get because they didn't get into UT. These days I'm guessing the number of those from aTm is very low.

 

[tcumaniac]

I was top 5% of my high school class, so I had my pick of any state school I wanted.

In all reality, I was most likely going to end up at UT or A&M before I received scholarship from TCU that made it affordable.

Growing up in Fort Worth public schools and then doing the Fort Worth private school scene for a few years before moving out to Aledo, I knew my fair share of rich [ Finebaum ]heads. And a few of them did end up attending TCU because they couldn't get into UT or A&M, the schools they really wanted to go to. Pissed me off at the time, but I've gotten over it. TCU needs non scholarship people to help keep the lights on.

This trend has certainly been changing since we won the Rose Bowl my freshman year. Getting into TCU continues to get more and more difficult and is no longer an easy backup plan for rich kids. In fact I have a buddy from TCU that comes from an extremely well off family. His sister was a good student/ cheerleader/ and involved in lots of extra curricular activities at her private high school in Austin and she didn't get into TCU this past year... even after submitting a letter requesting TCU to reconsider.

 

[TCUdirtbag]

So if the reasoning follows, wealthy Texans whose kids can’t cut the UT/A&M system, apply to TCU? Not really arguing. I just submit that the heavily stacked liberal academia which is packed into a place like CA skews these sort of ratings. They came from the Ivy League, so it follows that where they end up (eg. CA U System) must therefore be Ivy L West.

Not exactly — although Texas is close-ish to the level of some of the UC system schools it’s still not there (and it’s a liberal institution). A&M is nowhere close. Just look at the metrics on the entering classes to see this. A&M and TCU admission is about the same now.

TCU is much closer to UT/A&M than A&M is to Berkeley/UCLA etc. So this comparison doesn’t work out.

 

[TCUdirtbag]

Yes

I’m sure it has lessened quite a bit for A&M because I don’t think they are any harder to get into than TCU these days (maybe it’s even flipped, not sure), but UT for sure. The Top 10% rule has made UT hard as ship to get into and TCU gets quite a lot of its students from that.

This is true. UT has gone to top 8% (? I think its going to 6 soon?). The argument was that it would allow them to look more at a holistic application instead of packing the class with top 10% gpa. They sold it by saying they wouldn’t take fewer Texas residents, they’d just take from a bigger pool. Then—surprise—they just started taking a ton of out of state students with better metrics and who would pay out of state tuition instead.

 

[TCUdirtbag]

It's in the Reputation rating, which is the most heavily weighted rating in the entire ranking. When academic Deans get the US News poll asking them to rate scores of institutions by reputation, most of them have no idea how a particular school's reputation lies. So they tend to rate the schools where their faculty obtained their graduate degrees -- which most often are schools with larger graduate programs.

It's one of the ironies of the US News ranking. It's supposedly and undergraduate ranking whose most heavily weighted factor is graduate programs.

Spot on and concise!

 

[pgdaly84]

When I was applying to TCU in 2003 it was ranked somewhere in the upper 100’s. #78 is phenomenal.

 

[Deep Purple]

And in fact, it being that good is a big reason TCU’s applications have gone up. Wealthy Californians whose kids didn’t quite get into the state schools apply to TCU. That’s why California is the #2 source of students at TCU behind state of Texas

Not really the reason. Last year I asked three California students why so many Cali kids were coming to Texas. None were from wealthy families, all three were Honors students and Dean's List, and all three had been admitted to good California schools. Here's what they told me:

California schools are packed to the gills and overcrowded and, even if you're admitted to one, they're very expensive and there's too little financial aid to go around. But even if you can swing it financially, getting the classes you need when you need them in order to graduate in four years is a nightmare because of the overcrowding.

It isn't just TCU that's benefiting from the California exodus. It's all reputable schools in Texas.

 

[Deep Purple]

Also, keep in mind that there are about 2,200 four-year colleges and universities in America, so every school in the top 100 is top 5%. And when you're talking about the rankings difference between #61, #69, #75, and #78, you're talking about fractions of a percentage.

 

[Rabidfrog]

If SMU has 5 times more graduate research currently then I get it. Hopefully with our medical school and hopefully a concurrently expanding engineering program, TCU should meet and beat that amount of grad research with hopefully even higher of research with a high end science focus vs liberal arts. If TCU peaked somewhere in the 50s on this US News list, I think we are good. TCU should continue to be the ultimate undergraduate experience in America with selective high quality graduate degrees like MBA, natural sciences, math, engineering, and all the new frog MDs that are on the horizon. Very exciting for what is going for TCU and Fort Worth.

Quite Agree. this chancellor and Tucker have done wonders for TCU. Rest of them weren't bad. Chancellor Moudy helped the academic standing at a crucial moment. Proud of all of them.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

Also, keep in mind that there are about 2,200 four-year colleges and universities in America, so every school in the top 100 is top 5%. And when you're talking about the rankings difference between #61, #69, #75, and #78, you're talking about fractions of a percentage.

Just to clarify...the ranking that has TCU at #78 only includes the 311 “national universities.” I think many “national liberal arts colleges” like Bowdoin or Amherst would merit “top 5%” status as well, despite the more narrowly focused curriculum.