• The KillerFrogs

2017-18 Men's Basketball Thread

Purp

Active Member
I would be ok if the refs would swallow their whistles somewhat. 125 minutes of Big 12 ball with 133 fouls called this season. Too many. But if you are going to call one, please get it right as often as possible.
And be consistent. If it's a foul in the 1st minute of the game it needs to also be a foul in the last minute of the game. If it's a foul when a player has 0 fouls it also needs to be a foul when he has 4 fouls. If it's a foul when the 4th guy off the bench does it then the superstar needs to be called for the foul when he does the same thing.

And if you think you saw it, but didn't actually see it for sure then you didn't see a foul and you shouldn't call it. I think refs assuming a foul was committed or anticipating fouls will be committed is one of the worst things in sports. It's okay to miss a foul sometimes (we're all human), but it's never okay to call one that didn't occur.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I brought up the refs most recently so I'll tackle this. I want to be clear that I'm not blaming the refs at all. I just brought them up as a factor in the game. The definitely affected both teams. I thought they were bad both ways. There were a lot of instances in the game where I made comments to the KU fan behind me about ridiculous calls. I'd say something like, "That was either out of bounds on us or a foul on you." but the call on the floor was out of bounds on them. Basketball is definitely a difficult game to officiate, but that effort Saturday was substandard. Again, not blaming them for the loss at all; just commenting that they affected the game more than they should have.

I didn't notice anything different than usual in Saturday's game in terms of the refs. Not once in that game was a thinking, man these refs suck. Maybe I've just tuned it out.

I just wish we could've knocked down a couple open shots. Those two missed wide open 3's when we were down 1 or 2 with about 1:20 left in the game were killers.
 

RollToad

Baylor is Trash.
It's always the refs fault or the other team played/shot "out of this world"...always excuses from this lot. I know many on here have virtually ignored TCU basketball during the post-Tubbs dark ages and forgot how games are officiated at the collegiate level, so I give it 2-3 seasons before the basketball commentary is tolerable.
Tim Love sucks.
 

netty2424

Full Member
Regarding the fouls called, according to NCAA stats website for 2017-2018 through 1/6/18, 15 games(13-2).

TCU foul total: 250(16.67/game)
Opponents foul total 291(19.4/game)

Both TCU and Opponent foul totals based on 3025:00 minutes.

2016-2017, 7,850 minutes played.
Tcu 679
Opponents 711

2015-2016, 6,600 minutes
TCU 677
Opponents 742

2014-2015, 6650 minutes
TCU 681
Opponents 725

2013-2014, 6200 minutes
TCU 534
Opponent 621

2012-2013, 6400 minutes
TCU 528
Opponents 592

To note the spike in fouls called from 2014 to 2015, some rules changes were made to increase scoring so refs blew the whistle more based on said rules changes.

2017-2018 Total team fouls(highest to lowest)**
Chicago St(WAC) 395 (18 games played) 21.97/game
WVU (Big12) 322 (15 games played) 21.5/game
OU (Big12) 245(14 games played) 17.5/game
TCU (Big12) 250 (15 games played) 16.67/game
ISU (Big12) 227 (14 games played) 16.21/game
Dartmouth(Ivy) 198 (12 games played) 16.5/game

**total fouls are based on games played which ranges from 12(Dartmouth) to 19( 4 teams in MEAC & Summit League). Big12 has played 15 games with exception of ISU & OU at 14.

**WVU is highest in Big12,
**TCU tied with Texas at 250, or 5th in the league in personal fouls.
**ISU lowest in Big12.

EDIT: without counting the teams above and below TCU, TCU is in the bottom quarter of the total fouls. Again games played is a factor, 12-19.

EDIT EDIT : added OU
 
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Wexahu

Full Member
Regarding the fouls called, according to NCAA stats website for 2017-2018 through 1/6/18, 15 games(13-2).

TCU foul total: 250(16.67/game)
Opponents foul total 291(19.4/game)

Both TCU and Opponent foul totals based on 3025:00 minutes.

2016-2017, 7,850 minutes played.
Tcu 679
Opponents 711

2015-2016, 6,600 minutes
TCU 677
Opponents 742

2014-2015, 6650 minutes
TCU 681
Opponents 725

2013-2014, 6200 minutes
TCU 534
Opponent 621

2012-2013, 6400 minutes
TCU 528
Opponents 592

To note the spike in fouls called from 2014 to 2015, some rules changes were made to increase scoring so refs blew the whistle more based on said rules changes.

2017-2018 Total team fouls(highest to lowest)**
Chicago St(WAC) 395 (18 games played) 21.97/game
WVU (Big12) 322 (15 games played) 21.5/game
TCU (Big12) 250 (15 games played) 16.67/game
ISU (Big12) 227 (14 games played) 16.21/game
Dartmouth(Ivy) 198 (12 games played) 16.5/game

**total fouls are based on games played which ranges from 12(Dartmouth) to 19( 4 teams in MEAC & Summit League). Big12 has played 15 games with exception of ISU & OU at 14.

**WVU is highest in Big12,
**TCU tied with Texas at 250, or 5th in the league in personal fouls.
**ISU lowest in Big12.

EDIT: without counting the teams above and below TCU, TCU is in the bottom quarter of the total fouls. Again games played is a factor, 12-19.

Good info, but this indicates whether teams play man or zone defense or whether their offense relies on outside shooting and pounding it into the paint....those kid of factors, more than whether they are getting screwed by refs or not. A team could have 20 more fouls called on them than their opponent and the refs not miss one call. There's obviously no rule that says for refs to call an even game they have to call an equal number of fouls for each team.
 

netty2424

Full Member
I brought up the refs most recently so I'll tackle this. I want to be clear that I'm not blaming the refs at all. I just brought them up as a factor in the game. The definitely affected both teams. I thought they were bad both ways. There were a lot of instances in the game where I made comments to the KU fan behind me about ridiculous calls. I'd say something like, "That was either out of bounds on us or a foul on you." but the call on the floor was out of bounds on them. Basketball is definitely a difficult game to officiate, but that effort Saturday was substandard. Again, not blaming them for the loss at all; just commenting that they affected the game more than they should have.
Not directed at you Purp. You're definitely one of the better, more level headed posters on the board.

Honestly, it's not directed at anyone in particular. I just see a lot of ref posts and I can point to 5 things per game that the group can improve upon before I get to worrying about calls from the whistles.
 

netty2424

Full Member
Good info, but this indicates whether teams play man or zone defense or whether their offense relies on outside shooting and pounding it into the paint....those kid of factors, more than whether they are getting screwed by refs or not. A team could have 20 more fouls called on them than their opponent and the refs not miss one call. There's obviously no rule that says for refs to call an even game they have to call an equal number of fouls for each team.
While I disagree with your first statement, fine. I'm not going to try to get that deep into the weeds as I haven't watched every team in the Big12 play every game played to determine their defensive strategies(which can change game to game based on matchups, but whatev).

The argument was refs screwing TCU with calls. The numbers show we've been on the right side of total calls over an extended period(2017-2018) and every season since joining Big 12.

If anyone can make a case to dispel that, you're my huckleberry. I get it. Just trying to simplify this foul thing to talk some folks off the ledge.

I personally want to see a more aggressive physical team inside so with that, more fouls will be called. I'm Ok with that. See WVU.

Manage the game, start the offense closer to the basket, limit turnovers, push the ball, limit bad looks at 3's, improve free throw percentage, get better at free throws late in the game, increase offensive and defensive rebounds, increase hustle plays, don't get beat back on defense, etc, etc, etc. and to be clear, not saying this team is bad at any of these things, but if you can improve upon those or a few of those areas(and more), we beat both OU and KU, are undefeated and a top 5 team.
 

Tom Brown

Active Member
It's always the refs fault or the other team played/shot "out of this world"...always excuses from this lot. I know many on here have virtually ignored TCU basketball during the post-Tubbs dark ages and forgot how games are officiated at the collegiate level, so I give it 2-3 seasons before the basketball commentary is tolerable.

When will you become tolerable?
 

Tom Brown

Active Member
KU fans are the worst. They assume every call should be theirs. They are that way because it happens to be in their favor so often. Ask CJD

With that i like TT and WV against the moneyline and ISU ATS.
 
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