• The KillerFrogs

#BAYLORTEARS

Phil Ken Sebben

Active Member
Without accreditation, an institution does indeed lose all access to federal funding, but that is mainly things like Pell grants, federal research grants, and federal student loans.
Considering Baylor is a private school and the cost of tuition there, wouldn't the inability to get federal student loans greatly impact their ability to get students? Also, would private student loan companies still give out student loans to people going to an unaccredited institution? If students couldn't get loans to attend then how many would actually be able to attend Baylor?
 
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Pharm Frog

Full Member
Considering Baylor is a private school and the cost of tuition there, wouldn't the inability to get federal student loans greatly impact their ability to get students? Also, would student private loan companies still give out student loans to people going to an unaccredited institution? If students couldn't get loans to attend then how many would actually be able to attend Baylor?

It would be crushing IMO.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Yeah, you really do need Deep on this one because I've served on two SACSCOC accreditation committees, and I can tell you, you're laying it on a bit thick.

Without accreditation, an institution does indeed lose all access to federal funding, but that is mainly things like Pell grants, federal research grants, and federal student loans. These things are important, but nowhere close to being "the lifeblood of any college/university" (as you colorfully put it). Fact is, the feds simply don't play a major role in funding higher education. Public universities get most of their external funding through the states and private support, not the feds. Private universities get most of their external funding through private support, not the states or the feds. The only higher-education institutions in this country that rely substantially on federal support are the military service academies.

Loss of accreditation puts a serious hurt on your institution in so many other ways that mainly have to do with the private sector. Most employers will not accept degrees from unaccredited institutions as meeting the educational qualifications for a job opening. No graduate or professional school will accept an unaccredited undergrad degree as meeting the educational prerequisites for admission to their post-graduate programs.

So if your institution is offering undergraduate degrees that qualify a graduate for neither a job nor a post-graduate education, what good is it? As soon as the word gets out, your applications dry up and you're out of business.

That is the real hurt of loss of accreditation.

Considering their actions in this drama, and the precarious state of their finances, such a loss of accreditation may indeed exsanguinate Rape U.

What are the actual chances of such a thing coming to pass?

I have been exasperated by the complete lack of interest by pretty much all the relevant authorities in this matter. Is it possible that they are simply waiting on somebody at some level to do something first? And then, like a gaggle of geese, all pile in afters? Could this Accreditation outfit be the one to do the deed and start the feeding frenzy?
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
Considering their actions in this drama, and the precarious state of their finances, such a loss of accreditation may indeed exsanguinate Rape U.

What are the actual chances of such a thing coming to pass?

I have been exasperated by the complete lack of interest by pretty much all the relevant authorities in this matter. Is it possible that they are simply waiting on somebody at some level to do something first? And then, like a gaggle of geese, all pile in afters? Could this Accreditation outfit be the one to do the deed and start the feeding frenzy?

Chances are less than 0.5%. Exsanguination will not happen. SACS will not lead anything in these matters. Neither would the HLC. I suppose a probationary period may be considered but loss of accreditation will not happen. And Baylor is not in a precarious financial condition relative to scores of other schools.
 

Deep Purple

Full Member
And Baylor is not in a precarious financial condition relative to scores of other schools.
"Relative to other schools" is sort of a meaningless qualifier. Like saying Ted Bundy wasn't so bad "relative to other mass murderers."

Fact is, during the mid-2000's Baylor debt-to-asset ratio bordered on unhealthy. In order to preserve their bond rating, they had to place all further debt plans on hold until at least 2022.

In 2015, Forbes magazine scored the financial health of more than 900 private colleges and universities, assigning each a letter grade. The scoring criteria were:
  • Endowment Assets Per FTE (15%)
  • Primary Reserve Ratio (15%)
  • Viability Ratio (10%)
  • Core Operating Margin (10%)Tuition
  • Return On Assets (10%)
  • Admission Yield (10%)
  • Percent Freshman Getting Institutional Grants (7.5%)
  • Instruction Expenses Per FTE (7.5%).
TCU and SMU both scored an A. Baylor -- even after a decade of paying off old debt while freezing new debt -- still scored no higher than B. That placed them financially on par with a lot of little liberal arts colleges or small universities with very limited graduate programs. Examples of similar-scoring schools were:
  • Austin College
  • Oklahoma Baptist U
  • Oral Roberts U
  • Samford U
  • Schreiner U (Kerrville)
  • Texas Lutheran U
  • U of Dayton
  • U of Mary Hardin-Baylor
  • Villanova U
  • Wofford College
Etc. etc. etc.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
"Relative to other schools" is sort of a meaningless qualifier. Like saying Ted Bundy wasn't so bad "relative to other mass murderers."

Fact is, during the mid-2000's Baylor debt-to-asset ratio bordered on unhealthy. In order to preserve their bond rating, they had to place all further debt plans on hold until at least 2022.

In 2015, Forbes magazine scored the financial health of more than 900 private colleges and universities, assigning each a letter grade. The scoring criteria were:
  • Endowment Assets Per FTE (15%)
  • Primary Reserve Ratio (15%)
  • Viability Ratio (10%)
  • Core Operating Margin (10%)Tuition
  • Return On Assets (10%)
  • Admission Yield (10%)
  • Percent Freshman Getting Institutional Grants (7.5%)
  • Instruction Expenses Per FTE (7.5%).
TCU and SMU both scored an A. Baylor -- even after a decade of paying off old debt while freezing new debt -- still scored no higher than B. That placed them financially on par with a lot of little liberal arts colleges or small universities with very limited graduate programs. Examples of similar-scoring schools were:
  • Austin College
  • Oklahoma Baptist U
  • Oral Roberts U
  • Samford U
  • Schreiner U (Kerrville)
  • Texas Lutheran U
  • U of Dayton
  • U of Mary Hardin-Baylor
  • Villanova U
  • Wofford College
Etc. etc. etc.

Wake me up when they approach Jarvis range. We're talking about potential loss of accreditation. Financially they ain't close. You know this.
 

Purp

Active Member
It refers to an older medical practice which sought to bring the 4 humours of the body into a proper balance. The 4 personality types are characterized as sanguine (blood), melancholic (black bile), bilious (green bile, and phlegmatic (snot).
I thought it referred to A.J. Hilliard.
 
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